Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

10-handed, Party 2/4. Qtip is Button, I'm in the SB with XX. BB is reasonable.

See if you can guess the hands.

QTip open raises, Chief 3-bets, BB folds, QTip calls.

Flop: A42 rainbow
Chief bets, QTip calls

Turn: 8 I believe, suits unimportant.
Chief checks, QTip bets, Chief raises, QTip 3-bets, Chief thinks hard and caps, QTip calls.

River: 6
Chief bets, QTip thinks hard and calls.

What did we have and how did we do?

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

Don't know what you have, probably something crazy since you posted it, but my question is why would 2 good players be at the same table together? Was it a really good table? Why battle each other instead of just take the bad players money?

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

Qtip: Ax (Maybe A5 for top pair/gut-shot. If this is the case I'm not a fan of his turn play.)

Chief: A with a bigger x, or a set.

Too obvious?

If one of you didn't have an Ace I think you spewed. (Unless Chief flopped a set.)

Edit - I'm taking out my 'Chief with a set' guess because he "thinks hard and caps" the turn.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

Because I'm stubborn and like to xxxx with Qtip and he likes it because he's won $$$ from me overall because I'm not good. But we were both playing seriously this hand.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

Chief: 88
QT: AK/AQ

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

[ QUOTE ]
10-handed, Party 2/4. Qtip is Button, I'm in the SB with XX. BB is reasonable.

See if you can guess the hands.

QTip open raises, Chief 3-bets, BB folds, QTip thinks hard and calls.

Flop: A42 rainbow
Chief bets, QTip calls

Turn: 8 I believe, suits unimportant.
Chief checks, QTip bets, Chief raises, QTip 3-bets, Chief thinks hard and caps, QTip calls.

River: 6
Chief bets, QTip thinks hard and calls.

What did we have and how did we do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't know what you have, probably something crazy since you posted it, but my question is why would 2 good players be at the same table together? Was it a really good table? Why battle each other instead of just take the bad players money?

[/ QUOTE ]

I love playing with Chief at my table and many times I look for him to do just that. It's a blast and just keeps things interesting.

It's also a great way to be accountable for what you did in a hand. There's been many times where Chief got to watch my play a hand, and then we can talk about it.

It's also great for the 1 hand in 200 at a table when we go toe to toe and you get some experience playing with a thinking player.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

I want to chime in here with some discussion, Matt, but I didn't know you were going to post it as "Guess the hand style". Now I don't want to blow it for others guessing and ruin your fun...

Let me know when I can chime in.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

OK OK...this may not be a great one for guess the hands anyway because the ranges are just too big.

I had A2. QTip had A6. I wasn't going to post it but it goes well I think with QTip's HEPFAP post today.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

I like the way you played your hand, Chief. QTip should definitely not be 3-betting the turn.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

I liked my play in this one too [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] but I thought the turn cap was close. I did, BTW, intend to fold to a river raise.

I know QTip didn't like his play here either which is probably part of the reason why he posted the HEPFAP post he did today. Obviously he turn 3-bet was bad. I think what's interesting is his turn bet to start with. I think he should check there against me. Comments?

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I liked my play in this one too [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] but I thought the turn cap was close. I did, BTW, intend to fold to a river raise.

I know QTip didn't like his play here either which is probably part of the reason why he posted the HEPFAP post he did today. Obviously he turn 3-bet was bad. I think what's interesting is his turn bet to start with. I think he should check there against me. Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly right. I should have checked the turn. What would have been interesting is, after I catch 2 pair, and chief bets into me on the river, do I raise?

I told chief I didn't like my play (the turn sucked all around). I got caught up in all the excitement! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

What did you have him on? Why didn't you raise the river?

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

[ QUOTE ]
What did you have him on? Why didn't you raise the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to know something about chief's aggressive blind style. 22 and 44 are just as likely here as AA.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What did you have him on? Why didn't you raise the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to know something about chief's aggressive blind style. 22 and 44 are just as likely here as AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

So...at the river, I think he's folding anything I beat to a raise, and I'm getting 3 bet with anything better.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

[ QUOTE ]
What did you have him on? Why didn't you raise the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

The check-raise cap on the turn suggests to me that Chief has a made hand, 2-pair or better. Since the agression came on the 8 it looks like he has A8 or a set. By raising the river we may gain 1BB when we're ahead and lose 2BB when we're behind. We would need to be correct about being ahead 2/3 or more of the time, which I don't think we are. So the river raise would be -EV.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

[ QUOTE ]
What would have been interesting is, after I catch 2 pair, and chief bets into me on the river, do I raise?


[/ QUOTE ]
I already gave you the answer to that when I said I was folding to a raise. So I think you're call is fine, even though at that point you know you're beating me most of the time. After I capped the turn and get raised again on the river I know you have at least a better two pair almost always so I'm not paying off.

And when I check that turn I'm not calling a bet very often. I'm raising or folding the majority of the time. And I'm raising occasionally with total BS just so you can't fold. Basically that's right out of the book you're reading so now you know it does apply and work well (if you follow the advice). [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

I run into this situation alot. By the time you get enough bets in to realize the villian really likes his hand the pot is to big to get away from.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

I do have a question someone brought up here. Let's say Matt did have 88.

How many are check/folding that flop?

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I should have checked the turn. What would have been interesting is, after I catch 2 pair, and chief bets into me on the river, do I raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. Chief's range is much wider when the turn goes check-check. I don't think he can fold a lot of hands that you beat here, or if he can, then you should be taking this same line and bluff-raising the river more often.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

He 3-bet OOP preflop and his 88 would be the best hand a lot of the time here (but very vulernable to overcards). I don't see how he can check here. Did you mean to ask whether he would bet/fold here?

That depends on whether you would play fast with an A, how often you would raise with a PP, what the chances are you'll release a higher PP, and what the chances are you'll see a showdown with the weaker ones.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

you defend your sb too much imo.


the 3-bet with A6 is pretty bad too.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

[ QUOTE ]
you defend your sb too much imo.


the 3-bet with A6 is pretty bad too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to chime in on this thread as well. If i'm defending with weak aces, I'm always calling, not three betting. I would rather three-bet with K10, QJ, 66, etc.

Edit - this applies more to the BB, but I think that I'm folding most of my weak aces from the sb here.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

Yeah, I'd often fold A2 here. So I agree. I should have said postflop we were playing seriously. Preflop I sat for about two rounds total and made my mind up to mix it up once at least with Qtip. But I'd normally muck this.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I'd often fold A2 here. So I agree. I should have said postflop we were playing seriously. Preflop I sat for about two rounds total and made my mind up to mix it up once at least with Qtip. But I'd normally muck this.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Honestly, on the turn, I was more like "oh no you don't punk lol!" (I expected a raise from you because you're like that when we mix it up). Then...afer you capped, I started thinking about it seriously almost folded then decided I would fold to a river bet UI.

I love it when we mix it up, and I think I just like the action that we give each other more than actually thinking too hard! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Oh well...it's always fun.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

Ok, by the look of things I put Qtip on the button with Ax, raising to buy. I put Chief on small PP, like 44, 66 or even as good as 88, or suited connectors... like 53(not so likely) or 57, 56, 67, 87 or 86s... maybe a strong A.

The more I think about it... it has to be AStrong... why bet the flop, and re raise pre flop, and cap the turn....

So Qtip has Ax, and Chief has PP or AStrong

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

[ QUOTE ]
or suited connectors... like 53(not so likely) or 57, 56, 67, 87 or 86s

[/ QUOTE ]
You can pretty much toss any hands with no showdown value out the window the second I 3-bet preflop. Certainly most of those you have listed are hitting the muck preflop here.

Re: Blind wars...yet another Chief Vs. Qtip battle...
 

ok, now I read the thread... I was partially right... I think picking someone you want to mix it up with is not good poker... however, I think the betting out was good once the poor pre flop play with those hands... I understand the bet on the river... a continuation bet... but i don't like the capping of the turn... I like folding here to the re raise with a super weak ace... or just callings and praying for the str8...