Barry got his ass handed to him
 

Finally got in when Robert left up 55K. I was up and down about 7K, back and forth until the last hand when my pocket Qs with a $600 preflop raise was called by Bruce and folded by everyone else. Flop comes 4 3 4 rainbow. He checks, I bet, he raises, I call. Turn is a 10, he checks, I bet, he checkraises 5K. I go into the tank. He turns over a K, I am still thinking, finally push all in for 11K more, he quickly calls and shows a 4 (K4o). River is no help and I bust out. How do you play a guy who flatcalls a $600 raise with K4o?

Either my poker is really sucking of late, my reads are the worst, or I am having incredibly crappy luck! I will try again tomorrow with my nephew, Josh, and see if I will retire and drive a truck cross country or try to improve. Sorry I couldn't make it on th live feed. Yosh may not like this white boy.

BDub1

Re: Barry got his ass handed to him
 

So... he was trying to make you think he had AK in his mind by showing you the King... Guess that's what he was thinking but that's easy to figure out after the fact.

Interesting situation. All comes down to how pot size vs hand strength vs opponent and it does seem like Bruce needs a pretty good hand to play a big pot often but you be the judge of what sort of a range that means in that situation..

Sometimes checking through may not be awful.. Little pot control isn't awful sometimes and we give incentive for worse hands to bet or call by showing weakness and we usually give up a lot less equity headsup. Doesn't a double check raise by Bruce make you sick in hindsight?

Re: Barry got his ass handed to him
 

[ QUOTE ]
Finally got in when Robert left up 55K. I was up and down about 7K, back and forth until the last hand when my pocket Qs with a $600 preflop raise was called by Bruce and folded by everyone else. Flop comes 4 3 4 rainbow. He checks, I bet, he raises, I call. Turn is a 10, he checks, I bet, he checkraises 5K. I go into the tank. He turns over a K, I am still thinking, finally push all in for 11K more, he quickly calls and shows a 4 (K4o). River is no help and I bust out. How do you play a guy who flatcalls a $600 raise with K4o?

BDub1

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? Fold overpairs.

I don't think I'd ever fold a single hand for a 600$ raise with 20+K behind.

I don't think Bruce (seat 9 right?) would make that move with just AK there. At the very worst he has here is K3/KT and then you got to think will he c/r with TP.

Tonight\'s show
 

When I got home, I had a good laugh.

I got an email from Barry Greenstein about the definition of "counterfeit" and he pointed out that while I was technically correct, there are a lot of people that use the term imprecisely. (kinda like some people use trips and set interchangeable even though they mean different things). But the main thing Barry said was that it was a dumb thing to get in an argument about. I think he was definitely right about that.

As far as my laydown in No Limit Holdem today, you can read about my thought process in my latest journal entry. Since there were three clubs on the flop, in the long run it was definitely a +EV laydown.

Re: Tonight\'s show
 

[ QUOTE ]
When I got home, I had a good laugh.

I got an email from Barry Greenstein about the definition of "counterfeit" and he pointed out that while I was technically correct, there are a lot of people that use the term imprecisely. (kinda like some people use trips and set interchangeable even though they mean different things). But the main thing Barry said was that it was a dumb thing to get in an argument about. I think he was definitely right about that.

As far as my laydown in No Limit Holdem today, you can read about my thought process in my latest journal entry. Since there were three clubs on the flop, in the long run it was definitely a +EV laydown.

[/ QUOTE ]

This argument was pretty stupid. Anyway its nice that we had a lot of new people watch the show. I have to admit I did look up the definition of counterfeit (in poker terms)when I got home. Most of the poker glossaries were consistant with Shirley's definition. However, I did run into some articles using the term in the same way that I did with the double paired board.

Check out a Phil Hellmuth Article here:

http://www.philhellmuth.com/articles.html?id=32

Steve Badger article here:

http://www.playwinningpoker.com/articles/02/22.html

Interestingly this article is about Omaha H/L but refers not to a copy counterfiet of a low but a counterfeit of two pair.

Re: Tonight\'s show
 

[ QUOTE ]
When I got home, I had a good laugh.

I got an email from Barry Greenstein about the definition of "counterfeit" and he pointed out that while I was technically correct, there are a lot of people that use the term imprecisely. (kinda like some people use trips and set interchangeable even though they mean different things). But the main thing Barry said was that it was a dumb thing to get in an argument about. I think he was definitely right about that.

As far as my laydown in No Limit Holdem today, you can read about my thought process in my latest journal entry. Since there were three clubs on the flop, in the long run it was definitely a +EV laydown.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the 66, What do you call it then? Yosh's hand most definately changed from 2 pair (88667) to (99887) on the river.

On the straight hand.

I'm sorry, If you put them exactly on a set/flush draw it's a bad fold because you're a favorite.

Board: Tc 8c 7c
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 35.9911 % 35.77% 00.22% { Jd9d, Jh9h, Js9s, Jd9h, Jd9s, Jh9d, Jh9s, Js9d, Js9h }
Hand 2: 29.9003 % 29.68% 00.22% { AcAd, AcAh, AcAs }
Hand 3: 34.1085 % 33.89% 00.22% { TT, 88-77 }

The only way it's bad to call here is if he has a 9 along with a flush draw. Like Kc9x or Ks9c

Re: Tonight\'s show
 

It's a terrible call. Have you ever played No Limit? Suppose one player has Js9c. She's being freerolled then. On a flop of three of a suit, it went bet, call, all-in, all-in... and you would call here? With even one player behind you? If you always call in situations like this you will be broke in no time. If you assume there is a 0% chance one of your three opponents has a flush, you need a reality check.

Re: Tonight\'s show
 

[ QUOTE ]
When I got home, I had a good laugh.

I got an email from Barry Greenstein about the definition of "counterfeit" and he pointed out that while I was technically correct, there are a lot of people that use the term imprecisely. (kinda like some people use trips and set interchangeable even though they mean different things).

[/ QUOTE ]



Having trips and having a set are VERY precise terms and there is no confusion, except amongst those people that don't know what they're talking about.

The problem comes in "counterfeit" means a number of things in poker and has been used to define them all. It further is a problem when anyone believe that a term with multiple definitions that only facet 1 is the correct definition.

That is part of the problem -- and arguing with Bart, which makes for a substandard viewing experience.

I think next time Shirley should be in the game and have Tuch and Bart commentate on her while she argues with Ed about whether his K-high-backdoor-flush-draw call was justified.


Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Barry got his ass handed to him
 

"How do you play a guy who flatcalls a $600 raise with K4o?"

If you're serious about this question, then you probably shouldn't play deep-stacked 50/100 NL. This betrays a very high level of cluelessness.

Re: Barry got his ass handed to him
 

[ QUOTE ]
"How do you play a guy who flatcalls a $600 raise with K4o?"

If you're serious about this question, then you probably shouldn't play deep-stacked 50/100 NL. This betrays a very high level of cluelessness.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm not sure his intentions behind the statement, but even as someone who manages to catch not even half the episodes of LATB, Barry is one of the best players on the show, without question -- one of the players I was seriously hoping to manage to savagely outplay in the meager 3 hours I would've had if I'd been able to make it to the show on my last trip to California but stupid business kept me occupied grumble grumble grumble imstillbitter grumble grumble grumble.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com