A situation I loathe
 

Villian seems LAGgish and on the decent side. I had gotten played back at twice in the last few orbits at the table. I've been a PFR/CB machine more or less. First time I got played back at, I called a shorties 2x flop overbet and my TP got sucked out on by shortie's third pair. Second time I folded when same shorty called my flop bet, then overbet-pushed the turn when I flopped TP, but an over came on the turn. The shortstack is a different player than villian in this hand.

UTG/Villian ($280)
Hero ($270)

$1/$3 NLHE Full Table, 6-handed

Preflop: Hero is MP with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
Villian calls $3, Hero raises to $13, 4 folds, Villian calls $10.

Flop: ($28.50) J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (2 players) </font>
Villian checks, Hero bets $24, Villian raises to $72, Hero...

Re: A situation I loathe
 

where do you play 1-3?

The hands your worried about here are J10,44 and AXc. I think if he's LAG, 1010,JJ, are raised before the flop. It's difficult to imagine him limping and calling a raise with J10 UTG, so i'm not even too sure that's reasonable.

I think i just call and evaluate the turn. If it's a brick and he checks, I may let myself get trapped here. I think I'm gonna pay of a LAG who thinks I'm just making continuation bets. I'm probably putting it all in on the turn, hoping he's keeping the pressure on.

If I think he's testing me, I let him keep throwing chips at me. Hard to say whether he's got it or not here, but I think calling makes the most out of bluffs, and maybe lets you get away if a club hits?

That or just fold the flop. I probably in reality fold the flop, because I don't want to deal with the situation.

Re: A situation I loathe
 

eeew. . .not enough info though to really call I don't think. I probably fold the flop. If I had more info on the villain, texture of table, really thought he was capable of playing back at a continuation bet I might continue.

Re: A situation I loathe
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villian seems LAGgish and on the decent side. I had gotten played back at twice in the last few orbits at the table. I've been a PFR/CB machine more or less. First time I got played back at, I called a shorties 2x flop overbet and my TP got sucked out on by shortie's third pair. Second time I folded when same shorty called my flop bet, then overbet-pushed the turn when I flopped TP, but an over came on the turn. The shortstack is a different player than villian in this hand.

UTG/Villian ($280)
Hero ($270)

$1/$3 NLHE Full Table, 6-handed

Preflop: Hero is MP with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
Villian calls $3, Hero raises to $13, 4 folds, Villian calls $10.

Flop: ($28.50) J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (2 players) </font>
Villian checks, Hero bets $24, Villian raises to $72, Hero...

[/ QUOTE ]

Villan assumes that your range includes more missed overcards than made hands. If you are tight he could probably pull this move profitably even if he normally has nothing. Some of the time he is going to have a monster, sometimes flush draw / straight draw, sometimes nothing.

I would call here and push a bricked turn. Any straight or flush card and I bail. The stacks here don't give you much chance to move on the turn other than all in. If he hit a set his laggishness got him paid off, and NH.

EDIT: Against good lag I fold here. Against party donk 6-max lag I do what I suggested above. He could also have TJ here a big portion of the time.

Re: A situation I loathe
 

I think my equity here sucks, and implied odds suck are working against me. I fold this without a special read, like he's from Italy or something. Call all italians.

Re: A situation I loathe
 

Fold. No way you can figure out if your hand is good without putting your whole stack in the pot.

You're most likely barely ahead or way behind.

Reverse implied odds are a bitch.

Re: A situation I loathe
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold. No way you can figure out if your hand is good without putting your whole stack in the pot.

You're most likely barely ahead or way behind.

Reverse implied odds are a bitch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well put.

Re: A situation I loathe
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold. No way you can figure out if your hand is good without putting your whole stack in the pot.

You're most likely barely ahead or way behind.

Reverse implied odds are a bitch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: A situation I loathe
 

Let me get this straight. In a six handed game, we raise AJ and get called (not raised) by a LAG in the blinds. We flop top pair on a drawish board, make a continuation bet, get checkraised (which does not always signal strength on the flop from a LAG), piss our pants, and automuck. No [censored] way is this my default line. I fold here against some opponents, but not most LAGs, especially bad ones. You will see all kinds of crap here from LAGs -- draws, AK, QJ, AT, KJ, air. Wayfare's line looks OK to me, and I am not afraid to stick it in on the flop against some people some of the time.

Re: A situation I loathe
 

[ QUOTE ]
where do you play 1-3?

[/ QUOTE ]

Curious about this too. Online?

Re: A situation I loathe
 

"LAGgish and on the decent side" isn't that an oxymoron? I think the move here depends heavily on the read of this guy. A lot of party LAGs could be raising the flop there with a draw, or with KJ or AT. I definitely don't like calling the flop - it's raise or fold depending on your read of him. Folding a good TPTK to this action from many LAGs on party 6-handed is a big long term losing move.

Re: A situation I loathe
 

I hate folding here because you see a flush draw so often. But playing a big pot, which is what is going to happen if you call or raise, with TPTK is crappy. Those of you who say call are really going to push AI on a blank turn? Spewage. Next hand.

Re: A situation I loathe
 

[ QUOTE ]
"LAGgish and on the decent side" isn't that an oxymoron?

[/ QUOTE ]

nope

Re: A situation I loathe
 

[ QUOTE ]
"LAGgish and on the decent side" isn't that an oxymoron?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still quite new to NL, but every time I read something like this I think, "Another Limit player trying to make the cross-over."

I make this comment not to condescend (when I first started NL play, I also thought LAG = bad), but to help convince you that limit mentality just doesn't apply to NL. TAG is not the only righteous path (although it's a great place to start for most players new to NL).

Re: A situation I loathe
 

I had a hard time describing villian for you guys. I had played with him at lower limits before and I thought he was a donk. Now, he's playing up a level, and he seems to be playing decently. Loose preflop, aggressive postflop. Making some good decisions.

When he c/r'd me it was a total shock. And especially the size of the c/r. Alot of the folks I play with are terrified of betting more than $20. I ended up folding the hand. Like was said a few times in this thread, it would cost me my stack to find out if I had the best hand or not, and I reluctantly mucked.

Yes, this is online. They have $1/$3 and a $2/$5 and a $3/$7 in addition to all the normal limits you see at other sites. I kind of like being the only 2+2'er there though at this small tiny site, so......no comment as to where it is.