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-   -   LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=404952)

Jack of Arcades 12-25-2005 10:15 AM

LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
With this week's brutal showing against Kansas City, LaDanian Tomlinson will most likely finish the year with only 5 100 yard rushing games and only 6 games with a YPC over 4, including games of 17 for 7 yards (week 7 @ PHI) and 19 for 52 yards (Week 2 @ DEN)

I don't think anyone doubts LaDanian's abilities, but let's be honest here. This is the second year in a row LaDanian's been injured and it's limited his effectiveness. People preach "give the ball to LaDanian" and "Tomlinson = win" but let's be realistic. Running backs take tons of punishment and giving the ball to one running back 400 times/year is not a great way to keep your star healthy

It's not really a knock on Tomlinson if he can't consistently stay healthy after getting the ball 375 times/year for six years; the only guys that have really been able to do that are guys like Emmitt.

For the last two years, San Diego backups Jesse Chatman and Michael Turner have rushed for 6.0 YPC while only getting about 60 touches apiece. Is it such a stretch to think that increasing the touches of Michael Turner and keeping LaDanian to around 300/year that LaDanian could stay healthy and increase his effectiveness? Sure, he might rush for a couple hundred yards less but every time Tomlinson touches the ball there's an increased chance that he takes an awkard fall or his knee gets McGahee'd, not to mention just general wear and tear.

Running backs have incredibly short careers. Those that have the fortune not to surfer career ending injuries lose their knees. Giving the ball so much to any running back is insane. Not only do you increase their chance of injury, you decrease their effectiveness.

I'm not arguing for Tomlinson to split time with Michael Turner or anything, but it really doesn't make sense to give LaDanian much more than 300 touches per year. Around that barrier, RBs start to tire out and lose their effectiveness.

For evidence, let's look at Edgerrin James. In his first 7 games (182 touches) he was only held to under 4 yards/carry once - 3.8 ypc in the opener against Baltimore.

His last 8 games (222 touches) he's averaged less than 4ypc 6 times, including the last 4 games of 3.8, 3.1, 1.9, and 3.2 ypc. He last had 4 ypc was against Pittsburgh in Week 12 - the game that put him at roughly 300 touches for the season. (Please note that his DPAR numbers, DVOA, etc have dropped as well, it's just easier to use ypc to make my case).

Running backs should be seen somewhat as starting pitchers who can come back into the game. If you could swap your starter with a reliever at anytime, you'd probably bring in the reliever to face really easy batters and save your pitcher's arm so he could face more of the tough batters. Then once he gets to around 100-120 pitches for the day, he comes out. You might keep him in longer if it's really necessary, but most coaches follow that guideline (Dusty, I'm lookin' at you).

Of course the analogy isn't perfect, but running backs get tired just like pitchers do. To expect them to touch the ball 375, 400, or in cases like Ricky Williams, 450 times a year and keep their effectiveness you're going to be disappointed. I think we can see that in the last two years of LaDanian Tomlinson.

Jack of Arcades 12-25-2005 10:18 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
BTW, CliffNotes:

-Giving the ball to any RB 400 times a year will hurt them and tire them out
-LaDanian's touched the ball a lot every year of his career
-Tomlinson got hurt two years in a row, and both years he had talented backups only getting around 60 touches
-Edge this year saw a decline in his effectiveness at around 300 touches.
-Give the ball to the Burner more and Tomlinson will most likely stay healthier and more effective.

IggyWH 12-25-2005 10:50 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
I agree 100%. LDT is one of the best running backs of the young generation and at this rate, he's not going to be able to walk in 2 years. You see the same thing happening with Priest and if things continue, it's only time before you see the same from Alexander.

JayLear 12-25-2005 12:10 PM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
I could not agree more. I love early-season LT. It's painful watching him limp through the late season like this.

UCF THAYER 12-25-2005 02:34 PM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
What does your subject have to do with your post?

wonderwes 12-25-2005 02:59 PM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
MVP should go like this:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Shaun A
3. LT
4. Carson Palmer

thatpfunk 12-25-2005 03:18 PM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
i really like the analogy joa, and while i haven't thought it through completely atm, i agree with you for the most part.

Jack of Arcades 12-25-2005 04:08 PM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
[ QUOTE ]
What does your subject have to do with your post?

[/ QUOTE ]

This was kind of a stream of consciousness thing. I was gonna make fun of everyone for all the LT hype, but I decided to talk about how he's breaking down. I said in the offseason I didn't think he'd get to 10,000 yards and while that's admittedly silly I think there's a good chance that he doesn't.

Victor 12-26-2005 01:35 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
you could make a case that he pimped so much earlier that he still is deserving.

Jack of Arcades 12-26-2005 01:38 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
[ QUOTE ]
you could make a case that he pimped so much earlier that he still is deserving.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, like that game against New York and that game against Washington and that game against New England... and what else was there?

I have a hard time giving the MVP to ANYONE who turns in a 7 yards on 17 carries performance.

PhatTBoll 12-26-2005 02:56 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
I don't disagree with your overall point, but Edge may not be the best analogy considering the Colts' schedule this year. Lots of bad teams in the first half.

Tron 12-26-2005 03:00 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
[ QUOTE ]
MVP should go like this:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Shaun A
3. LJ
4. Carson Palmer

[/ QUOTE ]

OH SNAP, FYP

ThaSaltCracka 12-26-2005 05:20 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
LT for MVP???? No...that award goes to the other RB from the West Coast.

ThaSaltCracka 12-26-2005 05:23 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
[ QUOTE ]
You see the same thing happening with Priest and if things continue, it's only time before you see the same from Alexander.

[/ QUOTE ]watch some more Seahawks games, and you will see there is a difference between Shaun and some of these other guys. He is much more of a finesse back, and he utilizes his blockers much more than some of these other guys. As of right now, Shaun looks more like an Emmit type of player than a Priest type of player.

goofball 12-26-2005 06:07 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
Gotta be SA

Jack of Arcades 12-26-2005 10:37 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't disagree with your overall point, but Edge may not be the best analogy considering the Colts' schedule this year. Lots of bad teams in the first half.

[/ QUOTE ]

Week 2 @ JAX: 4.7 YPC
Week 14 vs JAX: 3.1 YPC

Week 4 @ TEN: 4.3 YPC
Week 13 vs TEN 3.8 YPC

Week 7 @ HOU: 6.6 YPC
Week 10 vs HOU: 4.7 YPC

He's run over good run defenses before (Week 2 JAX, Week 12 PIT). He's just totally tanked since the PIT game, and he even had 3.7 ypc against CIN, one of the worst run defenses in the league.

IggyWH 12-26-2005 11:04 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You see the same thing happening with Priest and if things continue, it's only time before you see the same from Alexander.

[/ QUOTE ]watch some more Seahawks games, and you will see there is a difference between Shaun and some of these other guys. He is much more of a finesse back, and he utilizes his blockers much more than some of these other guys. As of right now, Shaun looks more like an Emmit type of player than a Priest type of player.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is true, but he's still getting hit a lot. 351 rushing attempts already this year and you know he's gonna get the rock in the last game to break the TD record. 353 total last year. 2003 he had 326 total but also had double the receptions which also brings him to around the same amount of touches. After that, 295 & 309 rushes per year.

I know he's your star, but it's only time before those hits catchup to him, and let's not forget that Shaun will be 29 next year. Seattle needs a backup to take some of the load off of Shaun, same with LDT and the same with LJJ (310 rushes and Preist started the season? Do you want to kill this guy already?!?!).

thatpfunk 12-26-2005 11:29 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't disagree with your overall point, but Edge may not be the best analogy considering the Colts' schedule this year. Lots of bad teams in the first half.

[/ QUOTE ]

Week 2 @ JAX: 4.7 YPC
Week 14 vs JAX: 3.1 YPC

Week 4 @ TEN: 4.3 YPC
Week 13 vs TEN 3.8 YPC

Week 7 @ HOU: 6.6 YPC
Week 10 vs HOU: 4.7 YPC


[/ QUOTE ]

Is he better on natural grass vs turf?

Jack of Arcades 12-26-2005 11:41 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
Actually, I screw up that post. Week 2 was in Indy, Week 14 was in Jacksonville. Given that I don't think there's any reason to think he is.

thatpfunk 12-26-2005 12:10 PM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
Ok, that would be a strange development if it were the case.

Victor 12-26-2005 02:42 PM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
lj has been the mvp since he was named starter.

tolbiny 12-26-2005 03:17 PM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
[ QUOTE ]
MVP should go like this:
1. Steve Smith
2. Peyton Manning
3. Shaun A
4. LT
5. Carson Palmer

[/ QUOTE ]

More important to his team than any one else in the league.

Dudd 12-26-2005 03:21 PM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
What about Tiki for MVP? Without him, their offense would be in serious trouble.

ThaSaltCracka 12-27-2005 01:49 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
[ QUOTE ]
I know he's your star, but it's only time before those hits catchup to him, and let's not forget that Shaun will be 29 next year

[/ QUOTE ] I agree, I think last year, this year, and next year will be his three best seasons, with this year being the best. As a Seahawks fan, I really don't want to see more than a 3 year deal for Alexander in the offseason.

DMBFan23 12-27-2005 02:11 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know he's your star, but it's only time before those hits catchup to him, and let's not forget that Shaun will be 29 next year

[/ QUOTE ] I agree, I think last year, this year, and next year will be his three best seasons, with this year being the best. As a Seahawks fan, I really don't want to see more than a 3 year deal for Alexander in the offseason.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he does decline, he could definitely play a marshall faulk-esque third down back/change of pace role for the remaining seasons...of course they'd have to restructure the [censored] out of what is likely to be a blockbuster deal, but they were gonna do that anyways

12-27-2005 04:58 AM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
just thought i'd toss this out there LT has yet to find the endzone in the last four weeks.

thats the final quarter of the season - and he has 0 TDs (of any type)

Jack of Arcades 12-27-2005 12:08 PM

Re: LaDanian Tomlinson for MVP
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know he's your star, but it's only time before those hits catchup to him, and let's not forget that Shaun will be 29 next year

[/ QUOTE ] I agree, I think last year, this year, and next year will be his three best seasons, with this year being the best. As a Seahawks fan, I really don't want to see more than a 3 year deal for Alexander in the offseason.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he does decline, he could definitely play a marshall faulk-esque third down back/change of pace role for the remaining seasons...of course they'd have to restructure the [censored] out of what is likely to be a blockbuster deal, but they were gonna do that anyways

[/ QUOTE ]

Shaun has a 3rd-down type back? He can't catch...


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