Playing Scared With KK
 

Player is solid, no relevant stats. I try not to worry about blowing out draws heads up and more about getting value. His hand screams AA or he's just pulling my leg; hence my passive line. I don't want the Ace of clubs seeing a free river, but I'm probably folding to a raise there. I'm pretty lost in this hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

CO ($338.25)
Hero ($188)
SB ($34.28)
BB ($112.56)
UTG ($80)
MP ($193.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1. UTG posts a blind of $2.
UTG (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $2, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $16</font>, UTG folds, CO folds, Hero calls $8.

Flop: ($41) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $15</font>, Hero calls $15.

Turn: ($71) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $80

Re: Playing Scared With KK
 

Why didn't you 3-bet preflop?

Re: Playing Scared With KK
 

I'd 3-bet to 35-40 PF.

Re: Playing Scared With KK
 

i agree with 3 betting preflop, however,with the way you played it, if you have him on AA, why are you betting this turn? I think checking behind on the turn and then checking behind on [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river/value betting non [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river works.

Re: Playing Scared With KK
 

What in particular about this hand screams AA to you? I don't see it.

Re: Playing Scared With KK
 

against decent players, I'd say 3 betting preflop lets lesser hands get away while getting stacked by AA.

you can induce your opponent to make more mistakes by flat calling the preflop reraise in my opinion.

Re: Playing Scared With KK
 

[ QUOTE ]
against decent players, I'd say 3 betting preflop lets lesser hands get away while getting stacked by AA.

you can induce your opponent to make more mistakes by flat calling the preflop reraise in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]


Agreed. OP said villain is solid. A solid opp. at 200NL isn't getting stacked by you with JJ/QQ if you pop it back to 40 PF. If you're going to get stacked by AA at least give yourself a chance to stack QQ. However in this hand you're losing to JJ, QQ, and AA.

This actually looks like either QQ that filled up on the turn and decided to slowplay, hoping you had the flush, or a missed AK. I like your line. Bet the turn. If you get C/Red, fold. If you get flat called you'll have to re-evaluate on the river.

Re: Playing Scared With KK
 

I'm actually a fan of the pre call i pop the flop up to 70 or so though i think. Turn card just sucks but as played i bet like 60, and fold to a push. i don't think 80 is necessary or accomplishes much. ace of clubs still isn't drawing the good

Re: Playing Scared With KK
 

I'm gonna fold here. Against a typical player, OOP pre-flop reraising standards are limited to big pairs. Since you have position on your opponent, I don't mind just calling the raise, but you have to use your position to your advantage. Given that villain's hand range is AA, KK, QQ and possibly JJ or AK, you're only beating AK and the other KK is freerolling to a flush. I'm probably checking the turn.

Results
 

Good discussion here. I see both sides of the 3-bet argument, and I think it's close enough that i 3-bet if i'm OOP. I'm surprised the flop play hasn't been critiqued more, but I really think this is WA/WB situation. I agree with someone that said betting the turn 60 is as good as 80. I don't know what i was doing there. I like betting the turn because I probably get a free river or i know for sure I'm beat, I don't see anyone check-calling and leading river. A boat is a possibility, and it looks like every hand villian could've had is ahead except for ak. To my surprise villian folds.

Re: Results
 

I wouldn't be surprised if he folded red AA, although his flop bet makes me think AK trying to steal it, or JJ.

I've never 3-betted KK preflop against good players. Just don't see anything you gain from doing this.

I'd check behind on the turn personally, and be put to the test if he bets the river depending on size.

Re: Playing Scared With KK
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
against decent players, I'd say 3 betting preflop lets lesser hands get away while getting stacked by AA.

you can induce your opponent to make more mistakes by flat calling the preflop reraise in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]


Agreed. OP said villain is solid. A solid opp. at 200NL isn't getting stacked by you with JJ/QQ if you pop it back to 40 PF. If you're going to get stacked by AA at least give yourself a chance to stack QQ. However in this hand you're losing to JJ, QQ, and AA.

This actually looks like either QQ that filled up on the turn and decided to slowplay, hoping you had the flush, or a missed AK. I like your line. Bet the turn. If you get C/Red, fold. If you get flat called you'll have to re-evaluate on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

villains range is much wider than that. also, this is a donkreraise oop. retard donkeys do this all the time if hero has been playing agro pf. he prob has A rag or some trash ~80% [/number out of ass] betting the turn against an aggro postflop opponenet is a good way to get blown off best hand. use position and check against aggros.

Re: Playing Scared With KK
 

granted i dont know the opponent, but given his actions (donk reraise oop, minbet flop) there is no way i am not raising his flop bet, and i am not worried about getting it all in here. fwiw i dont see ANYTHING solid about the play of villain based on this hand. if he did have AA, which i SERIOUSLY doubt he did, it was one of the most butchered hands i have seen in like an hour at least...lol. also, i dont like the 3 bet pf idea. against this type of opponent i am looking to raise or push on a flop like this depending on stack size and pf action.

Re: Playing Scared With KK
 

I check behind on the turn!

Re: Playing Scared With KK
 

others have said it, but that is a crappy spot to bet the turn. what are you beating?? 3- bet pf is a preference thing. mine is to 3bet.