Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

Commerce 10/20. Really good game.

Guy who is new to the table and in 20 minutes has done nothing out of line opens for $80 in MP - He has $3500.

Folded to me in SB ($7500) w A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I make it $310. Total donk in BB ($2700) calls. MP calls.

I have also been solid for the last few hours.

Flop ($930) is T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet $800, BB folds, MP calls.

Villain has $2400 left.

Plan for the rest of the hand?

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

Will he bet if checked to? Is he aggressive enough? If not, bet. If so, check raise. Can you sort of get a feel for his opening standards and cold calling standards? Like is he going to stack off here with JJ or is this diamonds or what? Any reads?

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

That's why it sucks - He could have JJ/QQ, AK [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], TT doesn't even need to raise after BB folds.

He was opening with TT or better here - that was all I knew. He called very normally - not too quickly and not too slowly. He was not a pro, but seemed solid/average.

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

So, are you saying that you're looking to get it in on any turn? When are you talking about c/r ing?

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

Bet again. $1500 or shove it in, whatever.

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

if he is typical, id go allin on turn.

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

I think it has to depend on your read when he flat called the flop. Does it seem like he's on a flush draw?

I would probably bet $1000 on a non-diamond turn. If he raises his additional $1500 and you feel strongly he has a set, I don't think you are committed, and you might be able to lay it down. This is player-dependent and read-dependent, so advice on the internet is not a huge help.

On a diamond turn, maybe bet $800, which gives you more wiggle room.

BTW, I have just started playing in this game every weekend. It is amazing.

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

I don't really like the way you played the hand preflop...

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really like the way you played the hand preflop...

[/ QUOTE ]
Elaborate?

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

Too much thinking. Not enough betting.

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

Wait, so far I've bet at every opportunity.

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

i like C/R all-in on turn.
heres why.
if you push it gives villian the chance to get away from hands that are beat (while he may not...it gives him the oppertunity)...however if you check he may very well push with hands he might have thought about folding had you pushed.

alot of times in these games people will call the flop bet in order to see if its a contiuation bet and then if you fire again are more likely to give you credit for a real hand.

the caveat to this is if this guy likes to chase his draws but is a passive player...if that is the case then push the turn.

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

Or he might suspect something is up and take a free card. You lose value from pairs like JJ or QQ, and you give a free shot to AdKd or AdQd.

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

Wish there was more of a read on villain. 20 minutes isn't much time though. Is there any reason for him to not give credit to your PF reraise?

Think he has QQ here the large majority of the time. For me this would be a pretty straight forward bet enough on the turn so that he will call and also pot commit himself to calling the rest on the river.

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

Right - So that was half of my thinking. The other half was that I was willing to lose to AK [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] if a diamond hit the turn, but that I was unwilling to give QQ w a diamond the chance to get there on the river - So I decided I would check a non diamond turn - and hope to c/r all in, or bet near pot if a diamond fell.

Too much thinking?

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

Haha - nice.

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

[ QUOTE ]

Elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

uh-huh....(I wasn't being facetious LA [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]).....basically, look at the stack sizes, player descriptions, and size of the pot on the flop in the original post - I like a larger raise, a smaller raise, or a smooth call preflop all better than what LA actually did.....

elaboration: both hero and villain were playing tight and un-tricky, so LA's reraise gives away his hand but still prices villain in for a flop, possibly lets him off the hook with smaller overpairs, and creates a very awkward pot size.....after hero's bet on the flop, even if villain auto-went-all-in and hero was just SURE his aces were no good, can LA fold getting better than 2 to 1 in a $5k pot knowing there's some chance villain has KK or AKs?.....

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Right - So that was half of my thinking. The other half was that I was willing to lose to AK [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] if a diamond hit the turn, but that I was unwilling to give QQ w a diamond the chance to get there on the river - So I decided I would check a non diamond turn - and hope to c/r all in, or bet near pot if a diamond fell.

Too much thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your line looks good to little ol me.

Note that if villian checks behind on the turn (assuming your blank comes) with the range of hands you put him on it doesn't look like that big a disaster. The only action killing river cards are aces and kings along with the cards that make him a set (not action killing but lapoker17 killing).

As an aside, won all ten pots I played today in my favorite 5/10 blind NL game. Do you think I should loosen up?

~ Rick

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

I actually thought you were being serious at first, then decided you were joking...

By the time we got to the turn I was already wishing he was deeper or shallower. His stack made it weird. A guy sitting next to me - who I generally think of as a moron - told me he hated my PF raise as well - he said he would've made it $500.

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

[ QUOTE ]
As an aside, won all ten pots I played today in my favorite 5/10 blind NL game. Do you think I should loosen up?


[/ QUOTE ]

Not if those donkeys keep paying you off.

Re: Commerce 10/20. Awkward AA OOP.
 

[ QUOTE ]
By the time we got to the turn I was already wishing he was deeper or shallower. His stack made it weird. A guy sitting next to me - who I generally think of as a moron - told me he hated my PF raise as well - he said he would've made it $500.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope to straighten out my thinking regarding a pre flop reraise to $500 being better. Hopefully this isn’t too much of a beginner question.

Assume non out of line player will often have a decent pair.

By reraising to $310 with his stack remaining $3200 or so (if he calls $230 more) you are giving him correct implied odds to flop a set (assuming you can’t easily get away from AA).

By reraising to $500 he needs to call $420 more and his stack will be $3000. Now he isn’t getting correct implied odds to flop a set and makes a mistake to call.

Is this most of it or is there more?

~ Rick