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-   -   2 cold on the turn? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=133109)

goofball 10-07-2004 02:24 AM

2 cold on the turn?
 
Party 15. no reads.


hero is in the small blind with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop: MP1, MP2, CO, Button call, HERO completes, BB checks.

Flop comes: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

HERO checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Button raises, HERO calls, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn comes: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

HERO checks, CO bets, Button raises, HERO...?

Steve Giufre 10-07-2004 02:39 AM

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 
You are in a tough spot, how come you didnt play it faster on the flop?

jgorham 10-07-2004 03:18 AM

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 
At that point in the hand I think it is really hard to say if you are ahead or not - not sure what I would do. I think you should have 3 bet the flop and led the turn, then you could safely afford to fold to a raise imo.

JasonP530 10-07-2004 03:23 AM

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 
You have to fold now. The CO leading could lead to at least a 3 bet on the turn, and thats too much for you. You should have played faster on that draw heavy board, espcially given the likelihood that you have the best hand on the flop. You were going to win the minimum or lose the maximum like that.

Anyone else lead the flop and hammer away from there? People love to raise on flush draws and aces, and it will just give you a chance to get 3 in that way.

Alexthegreat 10-07-2004 07:16 AM

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 
You should have 3-bet the flop.....That was the best possible way to protect your hand......You had to think you had the best hand there, right?

The 3-bet would have made this hand so much easier to play on the turn.......As it stands now, you should be folding.....

Deorum 10-07-2004 11:07 AM

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 
Unlike everyone else who has responded so far, I do not
think your flop play was all that bad. Not three betting
the flop allows you to play the turn more cautiously when
a bad card hits. There is nothing wrong with calling the
flop to see the turn card and action before you start
jamming your two pair. I usually try to avoid three betting
the flop when there are a lot of cards that can come on the
turn to make me fold. As the action stands now, though, a
fold seems in order.

nykenny 10-07-2004 11:13 AM

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 
reraise flop and lead turn.

since you didn't, u should choose between calling cold and 3 betting on turn.

Kenny

hockey1 10-07-2004 11:14 AM

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 
[ QUOTE ]
hero is in the small blind with A 4

Preflop: MP1, MP2, CO, Button call, HERO completes, BB checks.

Flop comes: K 4 A

HERO checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Button raises, HERO calls, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn comes: 2

HERO checks, CO bets, Button raises, HERO...?

[/ QUOTE ]

The flop play is right. You have a vulnerable hand. 3-betting will not get anyone to fold that didn't fold to two bets -- most importantly the set/flush draw you're worried about. By smooth-calling the flop you can check-raise if a blank comes on the turn.

When the diamond hits the turn, though, and it's raised to you this is about as easy a fold as they come. Unless button is a complete maniac you're probably drawing to 2 outs, if not dead.

garyc8 10-07-2004 11:24 AM

The problem with online play
 
If the button is a maniac maybe you can call, but it is so much harder to make those reads online. Not knowing the player well I would fold. His play is not inconsistent with a flush, and it's hard to put him on anything that doesn't beat you, unless he's a known LAG.
Like most respondents, I probably would have 3 bet the flop, if for no other reason to try to get it heads up. Your 2 pair is vulnerable to being counterfeited, and if the cutoff has an A with a mediocre kicker you want to chase him out or make him pay a lot to draw. If the button is on a 4 flush let him play against your made hand heads up.
I really find such situations harder to read online. Much less feel for the game; players don't have to show losing hands (I REALLY HATE that); tell reading is a total non-option.

Knockwurst 10-07-2004 11:48 AM

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 
Fold. There's about 8 BB in the pot when it gets back to you, and you've got to call two cold. I think one of these two players has got a flush so your two pair doesn't look so good. If you make your full house you're good most of the time, but it's a 10.5 to 1 shot. There's 9 BB in the pot if the original bettor on the turn just calls, but you have to put in two bets so the pot's only giving you 4.5 to 1. And you don't know if the original bettor might raise. I would fold this. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

P.S. I would have check raised the flop. It wouldn't have got any of the flush draws out, but you'd have them paying the max for their draw.


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