Problems with Aggresive Games
 

I seem to have a lot of difficulty dealing with loose and very aggresive games. I will post a couple of hands. Maybe somebody can help.

First hand:

MP1 is a very loose and aggresive player. PT has him at 67% VP$IP and 22% PF Raise.

MP2 is loose and passive. 32% VP$IP and 2.6% PF Raise.

Additionally, there is at least one other player at the table with a VP$IP of around 80%. There are at least two or three players with VP$IP of 40 to 50%

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls.

River: (6.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Results below:
UTG doesn't show.
MP1 has 6d 4c (straight, ten high).
Hero has Kd Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP1 wins 8.75 BB.

Is there anything I could have done to protect my hand, or was this guy going to call me down no matter what? Should I have played differently?

Second Hand:

UTG is the same aggresive player that beat me on the last hand.

BB plays 51% VP$IP with preflop raise of around 12%

Same table as described in the last hand.

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 folds, CO calls.

River: (9 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, CO calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

Results below:
Hero has Qd Qh (two pair, queens and twos).
BB has 2h Kc (three of a kind, twos).
UTG doesn't show.
CO has 6s 5c (two pair, sixes and twos).
Outcome: BB wins 15 BB.

Lets just say the rest of the night went like this. With all of the aggresive raises pre flop, I did not play a lot of speculative hands. My VP$IP was around 15%. I hate to cold call raises; however, when the game gets this loose, should I cold call with speculative hands? Do hands like small or medium pairs become more robust in aggresive games? Do suited connectors go up or down in strength? Please help. I am tired of getting my butt kicked in these types of games.

Re: Problems with Aggresive Games
 

There is nothing you could have done on either hand. It happens.

You are right to hate cold calling raises so when you find yourself in a position where the same people keep raising and raising you can 3-bet instead of fold a lot more hands. If Mr. 66/27 raises and you have AJ, 3-bet it. 77, 3-bet it. KQ, 3-bet it. Against someone with that high a pfr I am 3-betting any hand that I would open with. Try to get it heads up with these guys.

Re: Problems with Aggresive Games
 

I'm confused. You refer to a lot of preflop raises, but in these hands you were the only one raising. I'd call these hands passive, not aggressive. In both hands you fell victim to players who played extremely badly but lucked out. Good job finding those great fishy tables.

If 3+ people have already cold-called a preflop raise, AND you have a GOOD speculative hand (98s-QJs, AXs) you should 3-bet. anything worse (suited kings, low suited connectors, offsuit connectors, one-gappers) you should fold.

That's the simple part. The hard part is working on your postflop play.

Re: Problems with Aggresive Games
 

Ignignokt is spot on. What were your opponenets TA postflop? This is a better indicator of how aggro they are post-flop.

Re: Problems with Aggresive Games
 

Seems your problem is getting sucked out on. I'd avoid that.

Re: Problems with Aggresive Games
 

grain of salt - this is my first hand reply, though i've been reading this forum for months.

i would have played both hands the same way - with an overpair and trash boards...bet bet bet. the turn of hand 1 is a little scary, but i probably would have bet that, too, hoping against a raise. on both hands you simply got sucked out on, i would attribute it to bad luck rather than bad play.

as for your other questions - from my own experience, when i'm at a table with maniac raisers, i tighten up unless i have a really good read (i.e., the raisers raise with everything/nothing, which ends up making your call nothing but a double blind). i wouldn't cold call with speculative hands, as you may just end up leaking bets. perhaps others could comment on the pairs and connectors.

Re: Problems with Aggresive Games
 

I was at a table like that last night. The first hour or so I was up 40 BB when my draws hit and 4 or 5 people would go to the river. Won maybe 4 hands. The second hour I lost 30 BB when my draws missed and my PP didn't hold up. Got it all back in the 3rd hour. The lesson is: play solid and be patient.

I was at a table like that last night. Over 102 hands lost 20 BB. AK cracked 3/4, QQ and TT twice, every hand I won was followed by losing two. After spewing a few too many chips chasing 99 on a stupid board I found a better table. The lesson is: if you can't beat a table leave it, there are too many other opportunities.

Granted it is a speculative thing and I have lost a lot of BBs not following my own advice and waiting for a table to turn. Learning when to leave a table is probably one of my biggest leaks.

Re: Problems with Aggresive Games
 

:grunching

Hand1: Based on this hand MP1 looks very pasive postflop, not agressive at all [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] I don't bet the river, the rest of the hand is standard.

Hand2: The only questionable street is the river. I think your options are b/c and c/c with b/c being a little better.

Your opponents seem to be aggressive preflop but very passive postflop. Suited connectors and small/medium pairs lose value here since implied odds are low. Instead start 3-betting lighter with hands that you normally don't, like AQo, AJs.

Re: Problems with Aggresive Games
 

[ QUOTE ]
I seem to have a lot of difficulty dealing with...very aggresive games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you show us where these very aggressive games are because they're not in this post.

Re: Problems with Aggresive Games
 

Look man, you play micro limits enough your going to get sucked out a lot. Just be glad your not playing against the people posting in this forum. I would rather be sucked out multiple times by some moron than have to play 9 others that post on this forum. Dont worry, your good hands will hold up in the long run.