Calling Station hand
 

Full table UB 3/6

The aggressive players have gone to bed.

I'm in the big blind.

Dealt 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG +2 calls (very tight player), SB calls, I check.

Flop (6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])

Check, check, check

Turn (6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])

SB bets, I call, UTG +2 folds

River (7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img])

SB bets, I call


Win or lose...I feel like I missed a raise on either the turn or the river.

What do you guys think?


Dave

Re: Calling Station hand
 

Since you were willing to call the turn and the river without improving, why not raise the turn?

Re: Calling Station hand
 

I think an arguement can be made to play this hand completely differently.

I think one could argue that I should have raised preflop.

I think one could argue that I should have raised the turn. (My personal favorite to find out where I was.)

But the river card puts a straight on the board along with the full house potential, so I probably would have checked behind on the river with that board.

In the end, I think I end up with the same amount of bets in the pot.

I don't think he calls my bet on the river with anything I can beat and I open myself up to the check raise on the river.

Dave

Re: Calling Station hand
 

I agree with your pf call and flop check. Since you know there will be no low after the turn card, I would raise. If he's filled a boat you will be re-raised. If he has two pair you might scare him off not affording him the opportunity to fill. If on a flush draw he won't leave but you will know if he hits on the river.

I agree that in the end it will most likely be the same amount of chips, but if he folds better in your stack than his.

Re: Calling Station hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Win or lose...I feel like I missed a raise on either the turn or the river.

What do you guys think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dave - I agree with you. My immediate reaction when I read that you called SB's bet on the third betting round was that you should have raised. SB could be betting more because he thinks you <font color="white">_</font>don't have a six than because he does or has a full house.

When you don't raise, you do get an extra bet out of SB on the river, but in the meanwhile, SB may have improved to a better hand than you.

You might slow play quad sixes by limping on the 3rd betting round, but trip sixes with an ace kicker is not <font color="white">_</font>strong enough to slow-play.

Your trip sixes is probably the best hand after the turn - but it needs all the protection you can give it. Raise!

If your opponent has queens full or nines full, you're going to get re-raised - and maybe an overly aggressive opponent will re-raise with less. But by and large your opponent will either fold or simply call your re-raise (and then possibly check to you on the river - and if so, you check back if you haven't improved on the river).

Just my opinion.

I wrote the above before reading the rest of this thread. Seems you came to the same conclusion I did about raising the turn.

Your hand is strong enough to raise before the flop, and if you usually raise with ace-deuce-X-Y before the flop from the big blind, I think you should also raise before the flop with A36Jd from the big blind. (Raising with other strong hands tends to disguise your ace-deuce-X-Y raises).

Or you can keep the strength of your hand hidden for a round or two. I think you do about as well when you win with a strong starting hand by checking from the big blind on the first betting round (sometimes better if your oppoennts are not alerted and sometimes worse if they are), and obviously you save a bet when you miss the flop.

All in all, I think raising or not with ace-deuce is a toss-up, depending on your opponents. However, if you <font color="white">_</font>do usually raise from the small blind with A2XY, I feel strongly that you should also raise with A36Jd.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

Re: Calling Station hand
 

Wow, that's really a raise pf OOP? I've got a lot to learn then. I didn't think it was great to raise A2xy or A3xy hands unless you have another prime card and Ace is suited in terms of low hands. Aye carumba.

Re: Calling Station hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, that's really a raise pf OOP? I've got a lot to learn then.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is, sometimes. Probably not here when one opponent is very tight. Against loose limpers, Ironman's hand has an equity advantage, and he'll probably play the postflop better then them. In that situation, it's +EV to raise.

Re: Calling Station hand
 

I would raise his hand pre-flop heads up against the small blind or if the utg caller were loose, but I would prefer to not raise with the tight player behind me. It looks like he has the best hand + position. IMO, it is important to raise the turn because (1)you need to lose UTG,(2)make a value bet against BB,(3)find out where you are against BB,&amp;(4)take control of the hand. On the river, I would bet/fold.