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-   -   Common top pair situation (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=380708)

LoaferGee12 11-17-2005 11:56 PM

Common top pair situation
 
CO is 34/21. I don't know anything about him postflop
Button is loose and his cold-call really means nothing.

Party Poker 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(6 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero

Just not sure what the optimal line here is.

Mathieu 11-18-2005 12:14 AM

Re: Common top pair situation
 
* grunch *

I've never played six max so I could be way off...

Here I would check with the intention of raising. CO will call your check raise with under pairs, even more so if Button folds since he will worry that you are semi-bluffing the flush draw.

Also, on a K high flop CO might bet some Ax hands that he would fold for 1 bet.

I doubt that this gets checked through, but if it does it's not so bad since few cards can hurt you.

MrWookie47 11-18-2005 12:18 AM

Re: Common top pair situation
 
This is a good spot to c/r. You'd rather not have button hanging around.

11-18-2005 12:54 AM

Re: Common top pair situation
 
According to your stats, he looks as if he has a pretty wide pfr range. With that said, I'd go for the flop check/raise and re-evaluate a 3-bet on the turn.

If he likes to raise a lot when you play back at him he's probably a bully, then I'd be calling down. If I improve, I'd bet out and 3-bet the turn. But generally, calling down non-A turn and river seems okay to me.

Since I'm new to 6-max, I'm unsure if generally calling down when an overcard like an A shows up on later streets is okay to do HU/3-way.

11-18-2005 12:57 AM

Re: Common top pair situation
 
To Me preflop looks like late position aggression vs the blinds.

Check/Raise the flop. I think the aggressor will bet in an effort to continue his bluff. It also allows you to trap the button for one more.

I lead the turn and re-evaluate

11-18-2005 01:00 AM

Re: Common top pair situation
 
[ QUOTE ]
This is a good spot to c/r. You'd rather not have button hanging around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you expecting BU to fold to CO's instabet?

I expect the muppet BU to be with us on the turn a lot.

I think, c/c the flop if BU is still in.
c/r if it's HU or CO checks.

Bet\fold the turn UI.
c/r improved if BU is still in.
I bet bet/call HU improved.

EDIT: I'm not stoked with a c/r on the flop other than HU.
I'm going to have to call a 3bet and c\f the turn UI. I think I'd rather save that 1BB and keep my hand hidden for the turn.
2nd EDIT: If my c/r is called on the flop. I'm still bet\folding the turn UI most of the time anyway.

Redd 11-18-2005 01:00 AM

Re: Common top pair situation
 
[ QUOTE ]
This is a good spot to c/r. You'd rather not have button hanging around.

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks like you're implying a check-raise will be more effective here at folding out the button, but C/Ring here traps button as opposed to facing him with two. I still value check-raise though in accordance with Aaron Dubya's recently linked 'betting into the pfr' discussion.

benkath1 11-18-2005 01:02 AM

Re: Common top pair situation
 
I get stuck in these situations too. I agree with the rest that this is a good spot to check raise.

What happens to me is I get 3 bet and I'm OOP and lost again. Is this a hand that I should be folding to a 3-bet on this flop, or showing down?

LoaferGee12 11-18-2005 01:28 AM

Re: Common top pair situation
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a good spot to c/r. You'd rather not have button hanging around.

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks like you're implying a check-raise will be more effective here at folding out the button, but C/Ring here traps button as opposed to facing him with two. I still value check-raise though in accordance with Aaron Dubya's recently linked 'betting into the pfr' discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that link is what got me thinking about this as I almost always used to bet in this situation. I check-raised here for value.

Koss 11-18-2005 01:31 AM

Re: Common top pair situation
 
*grunch*

Check/raise for value? Lead for fun? I'm not really sure the "optimal" line, as the button complicates things. Heads up I'd check/raise all day long. There's really no way to protect our hand from the turn cards we don't want to see. Donking might work if the CO would raise some weaker hands and charge our calling station 2 cold. Then we could call down from there unless the board gets really dangerous.

I'm leaning towards betting just because I would hate to see this get checked through, and the CO could always raise for us.


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