2 cold on the turn?
 

Party 15. no reads.


hero is in the small blind with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop: MP1, MP2, CO, Button call, HERO completes, BB checks.

Flop comes: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

HERO checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Button raises, HERO calls, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn comes: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

HERO checks, CO bets, Button raises, HERO...?

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 

You are in a tough spot, how come you didnt play it faster on the flop?

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 

At that point in the hand I think it is really hard to say if you are ahead or not - not sure what I would do. I think you should have 3 bet the flop and led the turn, then you could safely afford to fold to a raise imo.

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 

You have to fold now. The CO leading could lead to at least a 3 bet on the turn, and thats too much for you. You should have played faster on that draw heavy board, espcially given the likelihood that you have the best hand on the flop. You were going to win the minimum or lose the maximum like that.

Anyone else lead the flop and hammer away from there? People love to raise on flush draws and aces, and it will just give you a chance to get 3 in that way.

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 

You should have 3-bet the flop.....That was the best possible way to protect your hand......You had to think you had the best hand there, right?

The 3-bet would have made this hand so much easier to play on the turn.......As it stands now, you should be folding.....

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 

Unlike everyone else who has responded so far, I do not
think your flop play was all that bad. Not three betting
the flop allows you to play the turn more cautiously when
a bad card hits. There is nothing wrong with calling the
flop to see the turn card and action before you start
jamming your two pair. I usually try to avoid three betting
the flop when there are a lot of cards that can come on the
turn to make me fold. As the action stands now, though, a
fold seems in order.

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 

reraise flop and lead turn.

since you didn't, u should choose between calling cold and 3 betting on turn.

Kenny

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
hero is in the small blind with A 4

Preflop: MP1, MP2, CO, Button call, HERO completes, BB checks.

Flop comes: K 4 A

HERO checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Button raises, HERO calls, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn comes: 2

HERO checks, CO bets, Button raises, HERO...?

[/ QUOTE ]

The flop play is right. You have a vulnerable hand. 3-betting will not get anyone to fold that didn't fold to two bets -- most importantly the set/flush draw you're worried about. By smooth-calling the flop you can check-raise if a blank comes on the turn.

When the diamond hits the turn, though, and it's raised to you this is about as easy a fold as they come. Unless button is a complete maniac you're probably drawing to 2 outs, if not dead.

The problem with online play
 

If the button is a maniac maybe you can call, but it is so much harder to make those reads online. Not knowing the player well I would fold. His play is not inconsistent with a flush, and it's hard to put him on anything that doesn't beat you, unless he's a known LAG.
Like most respondents, I probably would have 3 bet the flop, if for no other reason to try to get it heads up. Your 2 pair is vulnerable to being counterfeited, and if the cutoff has an A with a mediocre kicker you want to chase him out or make him pay a lot to draw. If the button is on a 4 flush let him play against your made hand heads up.
I really find such situations harder to read online. Much less feel for the game; players don't have to show losing hands (I REALLY HATE that); tell reading is a total non-option.

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 

Fold. There's about 8 BB in the pot when it gets back to you, and you've got to call two cold. I think one of these two players has got a flush so your two pair doesn't look so good. If you make your full house you're good most of the time, but it's a 10.5 to 1 shot. There's 9 BB in the pot if the original bettor on the turn just calls, but you have to put in two bets so the pot's only giving you 4.5 to 1. And you don't know if the original bettor might raise. I would fold this. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

P.S. I would have check raised the flop. It wouldn't have got any of the flush draws out, but you'd have them paying the max for their draw.

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not three betting
the flop allows you to play the turn more cautiously when
a bad card hits

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the wrong way to think...

[ QUOTE ]
There is nothing wrong with calling the
flop to see the turn card and action before you start
jamming your two pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is something seriously wrong with it. The button raises, and hero is in the small blind, its checked to the button, this is such an excellent oppurtunity to check raise the flop and thin the field. There is a very good chance he will knock out gutshots and possibly other hands. His two pair is vulnerable and this is a great spot to protect it on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
I usually try to avoid three betting
the flop when there are a lot of cards that can come on the
turn to make me fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so weak-tight...

To the original poster you had a great oppurtunity to checkraise that flop, the check call is worse then check/folding in my opionon. You can't play some wait and see game before you start putting real money in the pot.

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 

Does anyone ever lead out here into this big field? Hoping to get raised so you can three bet. I think sometimes it may work better than the traditional Check/raise. Just a thought any comments why or why not this could work.

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 

If your opponents are the kind of players who can throw their hand away on the same betting round in which they've already put money in the pot, then your play may sometimes be a good one. Of course, if you don't expect anyne else in the hand to show agg. then leading out is also prob. best.

Re: The problem with online play
 

[ QUOTE ]
I really find such situations harder to read online. Much less feel for the game; players don't have to show losing hands (I REALLY HATE that); tell reading is a total non-option.

[/ QUOTE ]

Use the hand histories to see what anyone who went to a showdown held at that point. And the 3 bet on the flop is for value, against 2 opponents you will win better than 33%, against 1 (if only 1 calls) more than 50%

Re: 2 cold on the turn?
 

i was button in this hand and quite the discussion with my buddy ensured about whether it would be a good play to raise heer and try to push hero off his two pair (or whatever big hand he coldcalled the flop with ).