Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

It now appears likely that most major media mistranslated a key phrase in bin-Laden's video speech.

The new translation carries a very important change in meaning.

Arabic translators at both the Middle East Media Research Center, AND at an unaffiliated Islamist website, have both reached the same conclusion regarding what should be the correct translation.

Here are two excerpts detailing the error, corrected version, and its implications:


(excerpt)"The tape of Osama bin Laden that was aired Friday on Al-Jazeera included a specific threat to "each U.S. state," designed to influence the outcome of Tuesday's election, according to the Arabic translators at the prestigious Middle East Media Research Center.

The U.S. media have mistranslated the words "ay wilaya" (which means "each U.S. state") to mean a "country" or "nation" other than the U.S., says MEMRI, while in reality bin Laden's threat was directed specifically at each individual U.S. state. MEMRI specializes in translating Middle Eastern documents, speeches and the like for Western consumption.

Translated correctly, bin Laden's speech suggests some knowledge of the U.S. electoral college system. In fact, notes MEMRI, in one section of his speech where he harshly criticizes President Bush, bin Laden states: "Any U.S. state that does not toy with our security automatically guarantees its own security."(end excerpt)


(excerpt)"The Islamist website Al-Qal'a explained what this sentence meant: "This message was a warning to every U.S. state separately. When he [bin Laden] said, 'Every state will be determining its own security, and will be responsible for its choice,' it means that any U.S. state that will choose to vote for the white thug Bush as president has chosen to fight us, and we will consider it our enemy, and any state that will vote against Bush has chosen to make peace with us, and we will not characterize it as an enemy. By this characterization, Sheikh Osama wants to drive a wedge in the American body, to weaken it, and he wants to divide the American people itself between enemies of Islam and the Muslims, and those who fight for us, so that he doesn't treat all American people as if they're the same. This letter will have great implications inside the American society, part of which are connected to the American elections, and part of which are connected to what will come after the elections.""(end excerpt)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=41211

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

Well then I hope he realizes NY is a blue state and Texas is a red state. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

I don't know, I really doubt this, Osama's beef is with America first and Bush second. Sure, Bush's policies have undoubtedly exacerbated his anger, but he has been angry for years.

Secondly, the US public will not break apart over this issue. As has been pointed out, we are not Spain, and tend to react in a very different (if equally irrational) manner towards threats.

Finally, the most attractive targets for terrorists are mostly in states that are firmly in Kerry's camp.

-Michael

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

I agree with your points but I do not believe bin-Laden will necesaarily do what he says he will do and therefore I do not "really doubt this".

It hinges on the accuracy of the translation and there are two expert independent sources saying that this is the correct translation. That they concur and are of vastly different political outlooks adds credibility to their translations as well.

Also, it seems likely to me that bin-Laden would prefer a President whom he perceives would not be so aggressive overseas especially in the Middle East. I know the liberals on this forum disagree with this assessment, but if the translation proves to be what these sources say it is, that will prove that their view is wrong and that bin-Laden would prefer Kerry.

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

'nother reason not to vote for Kerry...

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

Your story comes from a conservative group which got it from this
Odd source

Is there a media conspiracy to explain why not many are reporting this?

I doubt the translation interpretation is correct.

D.

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

There are two sources: why are you ignoring the Islamist web site translation (which concurs)? You know what "Islamist" means, right?

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

There was no obvious link to the Islamist site.
You do know what "link" means? Why so mean anyway?

D.

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

Sorry for the tone. I thought you should not have tried to make a point like that when the "Islamic Fundamentalist side" apparently concurs as well and you simply ignored evidence of that.

There is no link in the article but the material is quoted directly from the Islamist site and the site is named, so I don't see why anyone would have trouble finding that site if they want to. Personally I would rather not visit Islamist sites. I once or twice visited al-Mahajiroun, and it was indeed all it was purported to be. Scary stuff.

By the way the article cites not only the Islamist site al-Qal'a, but also the Islamist site al-Islah, both in reference to their explanations of bin-Laden's message. Feel free to check them out if you wish to; perhaps you will encounter more detailed commentary on bin-Laden's message (as well as some other things bound to be of interest).

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

Hard to find what they are referring too.

Isn't a message board some place like this where anyone is free to post all kinds of claims?

Translating the actual videotape seems fairly easy, why can't CNN do it? You would think it would not depend on annonymous posters.

D.

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

The fact is if Bin Laden had the means to attack each American state do you not think he would have done it by now.

If they had a means to fight back I would have expected it to have happened after the invasion of Afganistan, I really think the threats have been overstated, although I can see the potential for more madrid style attacks rahter than an all out 9/11 type attack although even that wasnt that sopisticated (except for the piloting part).

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

Personally I would rather not visit Islamist sites. I once or twice visited al-Mahajiroun, and it was indeed all it was purported to be. Scary stuff.

Indeed you should be scared to visit the Islamists sites. No doubt Ashcroft is busy monitoring who is going there to find the next set of terrorists supporters.

Fear of Ashcroft's goons does indeed trump the need for careful research before posting threads proclaiming a CORRECTED version of anything.

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

I just looked on the MEMRI site for the actual article and found this footnote:

"2) "Wilaya" refers specifically to a U.S. state; it would never refer to an independent country. The term for such a country is "Dawla.""

Kind of hard to argue with that, presuming it is correct. Would you actually trust CNN to make a better Arabic translation than a collection of Arabic experts, and Islamist site(s)?

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

So you actually suggest they put, in quotes, false words, words that were never written, when such a thing is verifiable for anyone who wants to visit the Islamist site? You guys amaze me as to what you want to believe.

Not only Ashcroft, but I'm not crazy about the site itself knowing if I visit it. Your browser and computer give up more information about you than you might realize, and I'd rather not be on the emailing list of some radical Islamic nutcakes.

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

If CNN can offer translations to suit an alleged bias, MEMRI can offer translations (including with selective Quotes) to suit a well known bias.

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

I didn't say CNN did it out of bias. How about just out of lesser expertise, maybe?

The quote from al-Qal'a is unequivocal, unless you think it is purely fictitious. The quotes are not "selective" to make a point; they are clear to the point where "selectiveness" would have no impact. Reread the quote from al-Qal'a and you will see that selectiveness is not the issue.

I remember back when I posted some translations of certain Q'uranic passages and you didn't believe them--despite the fact that they had been rendered by 3 different Islamic scholars of the Muslim Student Association. All 3 different renderings, each by a different Muslim who was also an Islamic scholar, were basically in agreement as to the basic meaning, although there were slight variations in style or minor meaning. Yet you said you wouldn't believe that is what those passages in the Q'uran said unless you were able to speak Arabic yourself.

As I said, what you want to believe, ACPlayer. Never mind the evidence.

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

If you reread the thread you will realize that at no point I offered any views on the article that you offered to prove your CORRECTED version.

Reading anything from the MEMRI site scares me, I would rather not open that link. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
'nother reason not to vote for Kerry...

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you think bin laden would know that this would be the knee jerk reaction of most Americans. Hell, when i first heard it, I said "fcuk him, I'm going to switch my vote to Bush". It's a reverse psychology ploy.

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
'nother reason not to vote for Kerry...

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you think bin laden would know that this would be the knee jerk reaction of most Americans. Hell, when i first heard it, I said "fcuk him, I'm going to switch my vote to Bush". It's a reverse psychology ploy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur. If Bin Laden does actually care who's elected (which is debatable in itself), I think he wants Bush to win. For starters, he pulled off the deadliest attack on American soil under Bush's watch. He has been able to evade Bush's military ever since. In addition to this, the horrific lack of competant post war planning in Iraq is a boon for Bin Laden--the terrorists don't have to go overseas now to take kill Americans, because there are plenty of easy targets currently in Iraq. Also, Kerry wants to send more troops to Iraq, while Bush doesn't. Finally, Bush has yet to fire Rumsfeld or Rice, which is extremely frightening to me, and which should be to all Americans.

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

bin-Laden cannot know for sure that U.S. voters will react so differently to threats than did Spanish and other voters. IMO it is pretty clearly an attempt to further divide America.

Al-Jazeera\'s Translation
 

From the penultimate paragraph(s) of al-Jazeera's text of bin-Laden's speech on their website:

(excerpt)And know that, "It is better to return to the truth than persist in error." And that the wise man doesn't squander his security, wealth and children for the sake of the liar in the White House.

In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida.
No.

Your security is in your own hands. And every state that doesn't play with our security has automatically guaranteed its own security.(end excerpt)

Here the context is clearly about Bush/Kerry, and the word "state" not "country" is used.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...C36E87F61F.htm

Re: Corrected Translation of Bin-Laden\'s Threat: to U.S. \"STATES\"
 

"The fact is if Bin Laden had the means to attack each American state do you not think he would have done it by now."

Al Queda is only going to get sporadic opportunities to attack the US. Waiting untill security slackens, waiting for a key political/economic time, waiting just to through the fear of randomness are all possible reasons it hasn't happened (along with the possibility that they don't have the means currently).