Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

Yes, that's right $7. 10% up to $6 plus a dollar for the bad beat whores. And don't tell me I have equity in the bad beat. I would never hit it, not in a billion years.

This casino also has communal tipping. AND they usually have 2 or 3 empty seats at table for an hour+ with 15+ deep on the waitlist. They probably do this deliberately to get the rake faster.


So......

If I choose not to tip under these conditions, am I a nit?



BONUS FUN QUESTION: Does anyone know what casino I went to yesterday?

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

Bring quarters and tip $50 a hand. Tip a dollar for your big ones. I agree, that is rather obscene. Where is this located?

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

Motorcity would be my guess.
It would be acceptable to simply not play there.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

You're right, it's Motorcity.

But my only other option is Greektown.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

you'd think when they were already raking 6 dollars they might forego the jp drop [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Will there ever be good poker in detriot?

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

If you choose to play in this game, I do not think it is ok to screw the dealers because the casino is greedy.

I think you should either boycott this game, or tip as you normally would (i'm not saying how much/often you should tip, that is for you to decide, i just don't think you should change how you tip based on the rake -- unless the casino is paying the dealers more from the increased rake, which I doubt they are).

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you choose to play in this game, I do not think it is ok to screw the dealers because the casino is greedy.



[/ QUOTE ]



Well someone has to be punished for this insanity!

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bring quarters and tip $50 a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

In quarters ??? The dealer would love that.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

most forget that a tip is for GOOD SERVICE --- it is not a FORCED part of the game here in the states---
If the service is bad then NO you should not tip
If the pots are small heck no DO NOT TIP

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

Don Olney you are a Vegas nit. Do you see why? I don't like Vegas nits.

If you can't afford to tip when you win a pot, don't play.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

i played the 100 max NL game for the first time last night at windsor and 5 minutes into it i had to pay a 6 dollar time charge. the rake is huge already and they charge 6 every half hour? seems extreme since it's a 100 MAX table.
i might just stick to limit.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

I have read that many of the poker-rooms in Indiana and Illinois also have a $6 max-rake (sometimes with another $1 on top for BBJ). Steamboatin would know more about this.


It's just kind of the standard in that region for some reason....but if the players will pay it then what's to stop the casinos from charging it?


I also don't think the dealers should be 'punished' for their high rake.
Tipping $0.50 sometimes might be okay.

It's not like you're going to clobber this game for a huge profit anyway....regardless of whether you tip or not.

Also - if you think there is a dealer or two that is cutting you a slight break on the tip (not quite taking the next dollar out sometimes) then I think a tip is a decent reward there.

I don't think that whether or not the tips are pooled should make much of a difference...but obviously pooled tips means you are also tipping the dealers there who suck which many people don't like.
I'm used to that though just from my blackjack playing as well as dealing days where the tips are ALWAYS pooled...regardless of whether they're pooled or not, the dealers appreciate the gesture (or will resent getting 'stiffed' if that's what it is coming to)

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

Jeez, find a new casino.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

I consider a 6 dollar rake the same as a check that already has tip included. If the dealer does really well i might give something extra, but a $6 rake has way more than enough built in to pay the dealers a fair wage.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

I usually dont tip at MC for a few reasons:

1) The rake is very high
2) The tips go into a community pool, which just amounts to subsidy for employee wages, and dont necessarily reward competent dealers
3) The MC poker dealers are not very competent
4) The purposely keep two short handed 5-10 games so not only are they getting $6/hd rake +$1 BB, but they are getting 45 hnds/ hr.

See my post on what is wrong with Detroit Poker. This problem at MC is one of my main gripes.

-J

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
they usually have 2 or 3 empty seats at table for an hour+ with 15+ deep on the waitlist. They probably do this deliberately to get the rake faster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow! if true that is really ****** lame, do they have no competition?
Take your play elsewhere.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Dave

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

of course they COULD pay the dealers a fair wage.

Hell...they could pay them a decent wage on just a $3-rake I suspect.
And restaurants could pay their waitresses a better wage too.

The fact is, they just don't.

I suspect that the dealers at MC make $5/hr for their wage...plus whatever they get for tips on top of that (just like most other dealers I believe).


Whether the casino SHOULD take care of them is quite relevent to the discussion...because they COULD take care of them MUCH better far before they ever get to a $6-rake.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
most forget that a tip is for GOOD SERVICE --- it is not a FORCED part of the game here in the states---
If the service is bad then NO you should not tip
If the pots are small heck no DO NOT TIP

[/ QUOTE ]

What does a small pot have to do with the level of service from the dealer? You are contradicting yourself.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i played the 100 max NL game for the first time last night at windsor and 5 minutes into it i had to pay a 6 dollar time charge. the rake is huge already and they charge 6 every half hour? seems extreme since it's a 100 MAX table.
i might just stick to limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no rake, thats why you pay time. But I must admit, thats a rather expensive time charge.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

Wow, Australia is so different. No one tips in Australia - for anything. Its disgusting. I feel sorry for people in the service industry. I make a point of tipping anytime i eat at a restraunt. Unfortunatly, it is illegal to tip dealers at a casino.

Of course, our casino has a VERY differnt approach to the casinos in the states. ive had stupid rants about it in other threads. but lets just say its $10/hand, contributed to by everyone ($1/player) rake for their 5/10 game. So dont feel so hard done by. At least you have a choice of which casinos to support.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

if i remember correctly, i'm pretty sure the time charge was on top of the rake, because i saw the dealer take chips out of every pot.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

My thoughts are this.

First off I would not play there. Just that simple.

Second I would tip .50 cents. The dealer does not make the rules just enforces them.

Third if you got bad food at a restruant you would not tip less. Would you? Tip are on the servers service, not the price of whatever goods you are reciving.


If you go to an expensive resturant do you tip less?

play less live and more online.

I do think the rake is outrageous!

At Casino AZ they drop the BB before the hand is delt ( is that normal) so chops are rare. at low limits.

Just my 2 cents for what its worth.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

when in Vegas during the WSOP playing cash-games at Bellagio, Wynn, elsewhere I frequently helped 'remind' several Australians and Europeans to tip after they won a hand.

They mostly knew they were supposed to be doing this in the U.S. but were obviously more likely to forget about it completely when drinking and getting caught-up in a conversation, etc.

I suspect that the rake is higher in Australia and Europe and the dealers are more adequately compensated.
In the U.S....if they don't get tipped they pretty much don't make hardly any money at all (in most situations).


I agree that it's stupid.
They work for the casinos and deal games to me.
I'm not the one who employed them...I'm just there to play a game....yet I'm expected to pay them.

If there was ANY way that the casinos in the states could change so that there was NO tipping (but with an increased rake to give the dealers an adeqaute wage) I would be all for it.


In the non-poker casino games (BJ, craps, etc) many players actually LIKE to tip.
They get a smile from the dealer some of the time...and supposedly it brings them good luck.
It's idiotic ideas like that which keep the tradition going.


That's it!! I'm moving to Australia!!

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect that the rake is higher in Australia and Europe and the dealers are more adequately compensated.
In the U.S....if they don't get tipped they pretty much don't make hardly any money at all (in most situations).

[/ QUOTE ] yes i think australian dealers are paid quite well (above above most other service people)

[ QUOTE ]
Third if you got bad food at a restruant you would not tip less. Would you? Tip are on the servers service, not the price of whatever goods you are reciving.


If you go to an expensive resturant do you tip less?

[/ QUOTE ] couldnt agree more. tips are for the waiter/ress (or dealer.... ummm dealress in our case). its not the waiters fault if the food sucks. tips for good service.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

definetly

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

I would not tip, because I would not play there.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
of course they COULD pay the dealers a fair wage.

Hell...they could pay them a decent wage on just a $3-rake I suspect.
And restaurants could pay their waitresses a better wage too.

The fact is, they just don't.

I suspect that the dealers at MC make $5/hr for their wage...plus whatever they get for tips on top of that (just like most other dealers I believe).


Whether the casino SHOULD take care of them is quite relevent to the discussion...because they COULD take care of them MUCH better far before they ever get to a $6-rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't really matter to me if they do or not if they are f'ing me up the ass with a 6 dollar rake. Note that i've never had that be the only (or any) option in town, so i have never failed to tip when playing. But i definitely would if i ran into the situation.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would not tip, because I would not play there.

[/ QUOTE ]

NH SIr!!!!

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

Well...just because it's better or we're used to it doesn't mean that most of us can't look at $3 or $4 max-rake with $1 BBJ drop as being f'ed up the ass too.


If you're going to stop tipping entirely when it's a $6 max-rake does that mean you would tip MORE if it was a $2 max-rake?

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, Australia is so different. No one tips in Australia - for anything. Its disgusting. I feel sorry for people in the service industry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't feel sorry for them, they get paid properly: waiters in America get min $2.60 an hour or something; in Australia the current award wage for entry-level workers in the hospitality industry is about $AUD17.

I tried to tip the dealer at Crown in Melbourne and he laughed at me and gave it back ;-)

-wheeler.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would not tip, because I would not play there.

[/ QUOTE ]


The thing is, there's only two casinos here in Detroit. I do prefer the other one ($5 max rake and $1 bad beat) but I mean, I like playing live sometimes. It's fun, I get to play with chips [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]. But I still want to make money.

In vegas the rake is $4, right? So I'm paying an extra $3 a pot at 5-10. I won 4 big pots that night and I made $60 in about 3 hours. Now If I was in Vegas playing the same 5-10 I would have made $72. That's more than a whole BB at that game. Can you imagine the difference over hundreds of pots? After a hundred big pots I've lost an extra $300. 30BBs!

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

[ QUOTE ]

If you're going to stop tipping entirely when it's a $6 max-rake does that mean you would tip MORE if it was a $2 max-rake?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

[ QUOTE ]
if i remember correctly, i'm pretty sure the time charge was on top of the rake, because i saw the dealer take chips out of every pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they did that, it was perhaps a buck for the bad beat jackpot. You won't find a signle room that charges time & rake.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

Can you even beat that kind of rake? That is sick.

-blake

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

Lets just change the contect of your question a bit.

I went to a restaurant yesterday and the food was very expensive. I decided not to tip because of the prices. Am I a nit?


Answer: YES

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

This is why I do not play at MotorCity. I figure in a six-hour session of $5/10 that extra dollar is costing me not only one dollar per pot I win, but it is getting the poor shortstacked players out of the game faster also. This must come to at least 0.3bb/hour.

The only thing keeping the low limit tables going in Detroit is the ignorance of the poor players and the addicted. Decent players like me should rather play right here (internet). Playing at MCC is like waiting in line for more expensive gas. <end rant>

The only answer is to play higher limits.

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

Just FYI, Dealers at Motor City and Greektown are unionized. They do get paid more per hour than the average dealer in other areas. Perhaps this is the reason for the higher rake?

Re: Is it okay to not tip in a 5-10 game with a $7 rake?
 

No, the rake is as high as it is because they can get people to pay it and keep their tables reasonable full.

I'm pretty sure that Motor City and Greektown employees are part of the same union, which would mean there's no "higher pay" reasoning for Motor City's extra rake. They charge it because people will pay it.

It stinks, but that's life.