Did I get slowrolled here?
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) converter

CO (t11115)
Button (t7650)
SB (t10460)
BB (t5455)
UTG (t35794)
UTG+1 (t9250)
MP1 (t9725)
Hero (t21305)
MP3 (t15410)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t1200</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t1200, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>.

Flop: (t2600) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1500</font>, UTG+1 calls t1500.

Turn: (t5600) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t3500</font>, UTG+1 calls t3500.

River: (t12600) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets t3025 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t3025.

Final Pot: t18650

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG+1 has Kc Ad (four of a kind, aces).
Hero has Qd Qh (full house, aces full of queens).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins t18650. </font>



Villian's been pretty active, rest of table's been pretty passive/conservative. A reraise preflop here would probably be optimal, looking back, but I doubt I could get him off the hand.

Anyway, the reason I ask is on the river, he used his entire (full) timebank before he put in his last 3k in chips. Of course I wasnt going to laydown a 3k bet for 15k with my hand. Is this kind of the definition of a slowroll?

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

that's a sort of online semi-slowroll. though, it was done before the showdown of hands.

if he had been the caller, it would be closer to a "true" slow roll, but this is still a pretty douchey move for him to make (unless he's really just retarded and thought you would fold getting 5.1)

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

whyd you fire again on turn?

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

Huh? slowrolled?

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Huh? slowrolled?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, the reason I ask is on the river, he used his entire (full) timebank before he put in his last 3k in chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

How can you slow roll online? By definition it's impossible.

Bruce

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

No slowroll here. He was probably just making it seem like he had a hard decision (though he did put 2/3 of his stack before the river so not that hard). He would have slowrolled you had you set him all in on the turn or river, and THEN use his time bank to finally make the call with the nuts.

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

Maybe my definition is off, but I thought slow roll was deliberately showing your hand last even though you know it's the winner. Usually seen as obnoxious.

Sounds like what the guy did was deliberately wait to bet in the hope that you'll call it. Maybe he was afraid you were still on a draw and wouldn't call at the end. Not a slowroll as I see it anyway.

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
.... but this is still a pretty douchey move for him to make (unless he's really just retarded and thought you would fold getting 5.1)

[/ QUOTE ]

Not every vilian is 2+2 and you WANT monkfish to pay you off on the river, I'm for whatever it takes to make that happen.

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

If I think using 20 secs before pushing this river increases my chance of getting a call by even a tiny amount. I see nothing wrong with it. Waiting 20 secs to call with the nuts on the other hand, is a ahole move.

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

Villian is a standard donk with a slowplay bug. Fortunatley for him, your money was going in here no matter what.

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Waiting 20 secs to call with the nuts on the other hand, is a ahole move.

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seems really silly for that matter. But that's not what happened here far as I can tell. think he was afraid you weren't going to pay him off all the way, so he waited to seem indecisive.

Fair play as far as I'm concerned, even if he did take it a little far. Probably isn't a good player as people have mentioned before.

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

i know one regular poster on 2+2 who ALWAYS uses his time bank when betting (not calling) the nuts... i wonder if this was him...

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

utg who raises preflop then checks OOP when the flop is AAx? ****alarm bells******

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
utg who raises preflop then checks OOP when the flop is AAx? ****alarm bells******

[/ QUOTE ]

Especially when he calls your flop bet. Time to get a cheap showdown or fold.

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How can you slow roll online? By definition it's impossible.

Bruce

[/ QUOTE ]

It's entirely possible. What definition are you functioning under where it isn't?


Here's an example, 9 left in a WTA sat for a 12k package. Three Qs on the board, you push the river OOP with air, villain uses up most of his time bank then finally types 'LOL' in the chat box before calling and flipping over the case Q.
Then worst of all, you're knocked out and a bunch of the remaining players type 'wow, vnh' and the like and you want to kill the all, one by one, in the most painful and slow ways imaginable.

Yes, something similar did happen to me, why do you ask?

That being said, I don't think the OP got slowrolled here at all.

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
whyd you fire again on turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that not the right move? I remember thinking when the A hit and he checked two streets in a row that it was looking more and more like he didnt have the case Ace. But hey, why's he gonna bet when I'm doing it for him?

edit: it wasnt 20 seconds, btw. it was a full 60.

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
whyd you fire again on turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that not the right move? I remember thinking when the A hit and he checked two streets in a row that it was looking more and more like he didnt have the case Ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check-calling the flop is actually a stronger indication of the A then him leading out. You probably could have avoided paying him off this hand unless you had a very strong read that he was a bluffer. Naturally, from a pure math POV, when there are three cards on the board of one rank, it's unlikely your opponent in a HU pot made quads, but because the card in qwuestion here is the A, it kind of offsets that a bit (if he had made quad Kings for instance, in the exact same way, it would have been harder to avoid paying him off).

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

I see what you're saying. Check the turn and see what he does next street, because people are more inclined to play an Ace. That said, do you fold a river push after that?

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I see what you're saying. Check the turn and see what he does, because people are more inclined to play an Ace. That said, do you fold a river push after that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absent of a read, yea I would like to think I could get away from my hand at that point, but who knows (that's why you shouldn't post results [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see what you're saying. Check the turn and see what he does, because people are more inclined to play an Ace. That said, do you fold a river push after that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absent of a read, yea I would like to think I could get away from my hand at that point, but who knows (that's why you shouldn't post results [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, even *I* know that. But this post would be pretty pointless without the results, I thought. Thanks for your analysis!

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

Nah, I don't see anything wrong in his acting. If he used 20 seconds to call, I would be pissed at him since that don't make a difference, but if he is stalling 20 secs if he thinks that will make you call another 3k, then I would do that aswell.

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I see what you're saying. Check the turn and see what he does next street, because people are more inclined to play an Ace. That said, do you fold a river push after that?

[/ QUOTE ]

He'll likely value bet a smaller amount on the river if the turn is check check. You still have to call a river all-in, it's just less likely he'll push, and you'll probably save some chips if you're behind, plus your turn check gives him more incentive to bluff on the river with a hand that you do beat...

JMO

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

Too funny - i'm reading this thread when this hand happens in the $3r i'm in right now...

PokerStars Game #3303504525: Tournament #15977203, Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2005/12/11 - 11:25:41 (ET)
Table '15977203 7' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: jcast (7923 in chips)
Seat 2: Mystery5332 (9916 in chips)
Seat 3: RockyMtnMike (21620 in chips)
Seat 4: ExtremeKid (9728 in chips)
Seat 5: scottjf8 (8249 in chips)
Seat 6: Martinibianc (47250 in chips)
Seat 7: zippers (21710 in chips)
Seat 8: Annette (33803 in chips)
Seat 9: sitation (3930 in chips)
jcast: posts the ante 25
Mystery5332: posts the ante 25
RockyMtnMike: posts the ante 25
ExtremeKid: posts the ante 25
scottjf8: posts the ante 25
Martinibianc: posts the ante 25
zippers: posts the ante 25
Annette: posts the ante 25
sitation: posts the ante 25
jcast: posts small blind 200
Mystery5332: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to scottjf8 [As Tc]
RockyMtnMike: folds
ExtremeKid: folds
scottjf8: folds
Martinibianc: folds
zippers: raises 400 to 800
Annette: folds
sitation: folds
jcast: folds
Mystery5332: raises 1200 to 2000
zippers: calls 1200
*** FLOP *** [Jd Ah 5s]
Mystery5332: checks
zippers: bets 19685 and is all-in
Thinks for about 15 seconds
Mystery5332: calls 7891 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [Jd Ah 5s] [Qs]
*** RIVER *** [Jd Ah 5s Qs] [9c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Mystery5332: shows [Ad Ac] (three of a kind, Aces)
zippers: shows [7c Jc] (a pair of Jacks)
Mystery5332 collected 20207 from pot

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

people play more than one table at a time. this may be the case here. and since he was trying to convince you that he was "bluffing," its not really a slowroll. its not even really unethical at all. although barry greenstein may not agree.

Re: Did I get slowrolled here?
 

Of course you can slowroll online. Like the examples above, I pushed KcQc on a AcAXXX board in a large MTT. My opponent used his entire timebank before calling. I was certain he's gonna show three of a kind. He flipped over AA, and I yelled at him for slowrolling.

He thought I meant slowplaying. After 2 minuets of "intelligent" table chat, he actually did the unthinkable and said he was sorry.

Using your timebank to bet the nuts isn't slowrolling, it's just stupid. If this was live, you had a better case (for example - BarryG's hand in the PLO tourny, where he accused his opponent for taking 10 minutes to re-raise with the nuts on the river)