Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

OK football folks, this bothers me but maybe I missing something. Common scenario, it arose in last nights Holiday bowl in the 4th quarter with like 10 minutes left when Oklahoma had the ball on the Oregon 32 facing 4th and 9 up 10 points I think and took a delay of game penalty to give their punter more room to kick.

Why didn't Oregon decline the penalty?

One obvious answer is they couldn't decline the penalty, but Rule 10, section 1, article 1, subsection (b) of the NCAA football rules states "any panalty may be declined." I assume this rule is the same in the nfl.

So is this an etiquitte thing (which sounds like a silly rational to me, the game is about winning), or are a lot of coaches making an error here, or am I missing something?

Thanks, J.R.

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

I'm not familiar with the rulebook, but I'm virtually positive that (in the NFL at least), pre-snap penalties cannot be declined.

Many (10ish) years ago, I was watching a Seahawks game. Seattle intercepted a pass and returned it for a TD. It got overturned, though, because the opposition committed a false start (and the play happened because the players ignored the whistle). I adamantly insisted that they should decline the penalty, but alas, they couldn't.

I cried.

Josh

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

A procedure penalty negates the play, there never was an interception in that scenario because the play was blown dead. But that doesn't mean Seattle couldn't decline the penalty as I understand it, only that there would be no reason to decline that penalty.

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

Maybe they are worried they will convince the team to try the field goal instead of the punt if they don't let them back up. Letting them back up guarantees a punt.

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe they are worried they will convince the team to try the field goal instead of the punt if they don't let them back up. Letting them back up guarantees a punt.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make any sense at all. Why would the offensive team let the defense decide if it was going to go for a field goal?

-McGee

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

They could have declined it, but many teams don't buy into the "giving a guy more room to punt" argument.

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

Feild position?

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not familiar with the rulebook, but I'm virtually positive that (in the NFL at least), pre-snap penalties cannot be declined.

Many (10ish) years ago, I was watching a Seahawks game. Seattle intercepted a pass and returned it for a TD. It got overturned, though, because the opposition committed a false start (and the play happened because the players ignored the whistle). I adamantly insisted that they should decline the penalty, but alas, they couldn't.

I cried.

Josh

[/ QUOTE ]

This is different, because there was a wistle (and therefore no play). If seattle had declined the penalty (I don't know if they could have or not)in the situation you describe, the opposition would have kept the ball (since there was no play).

Once the wistle is blown, the play MUST be over. Perhapse some players on the opposition heard the wistle, and therefore didn't try to catch the player that was returning the pass.

Players are taught to stop playing at the wistle and are sometimes penalized if they don't. Therefore, when the wistle blows, the play MUST be over.

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

Using the holiday bowl example, you think Oregon suspected the Oklahoma kicker would do worse kicking from the 37 than the 32? If so, given that Oklahoma wanted to take the penalty and is presumably more familiar with their punter's capabilites, can't we question Oregon's judgment?

Even if Oregon doesn't buy into the argument, a number of teams would do the same in Oklahoma's shoes, so why don't these teams who buy into the "more room to punt" argument decline the penalty when on defense?

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK football folks, this bothers me but maybe I missing something. Common scenario, it arose in last nights Holiday bowl in the 4th quarter with like 10 minutes left when Oklahoma had the ball on the Oregon 32 facing 4th and 9 up 10 points I think and took a delay of game penalty to give their punter more room to kick.

Why didn't Oregon decline the penalty?

One obvious answer is they couldn't decline the penalty, but Rule 10, section 1, article 1, subsection (b) of the NCAA football rules states "any panalty may be declined." I assume this rule is the same in the nfl.

So is this an etiquitte thing (which sounds like a silly rational to me, the game is about winning), or are a lot of coaches making an error here, or am I missing something?

Thanks, J.R.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't read through all the responses, so forgive me if somebody already answered this. The play never happened, so the defense has no option to decline the penalty. Much like an illegal procedure or false start penalty. Those are called before the play starts, and automatically enforced.

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

Ok, let's say Oklahoma was thinking we have a 60% chance to make the field goal and a 50% chance of a touchback from the 32, but a 55% chance of a touchback and a 10% chance of a field goal from the 37.

Maybe they think the extra chance of a touchback is not worth the risk if they can't back themselves up.

Maybe the other team thinks this scenario is a possibility , but decides to themselves that they want to trust their offense and don't need field position.

Not saying this is normally the case but this could be possible.

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

Jay,

The NCAA Football Rule Book. Scroll to page 124 where, under section 10, "Penalty Enforcement", it states "any penalty may be declined." I can't find an nfl rule book dicussion of the scope of a team's discretion to decline a penalty.

Why do you think a delay of game penalty cannot be declined?

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

I've seen coaches decline delay of game penalties.

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

yeah, and I don't get it why more coaches don't. It seem like a no-brainer in most all cases.

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, and I don't get it why more coaches don't. It seem like a no-brainer in most all cases.

[/ QUOTE ]

One possible reason is that if its less than 5 yards to go, it might be too risky that they continually try this until the team is drawn offsides, giving the other team a first down. If they take the penalty, even if they jump offsides on the punt, it won't mean much.

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

I would defenetly go for the first down in that spot.

Re: Football Rules- Why don\'t teams decline this kind of penalty?
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK football folks, this bothers me but maybe I missing something. Common scenario, it arose in last nights Holiday bowl in the 4th quarter with like 10 minutes left when Oklahoma had the ball on the Oregon 32 facing 4th and 9 up 10 points I think and took a delay of game penalty to give their punter more room to kick.

Why didn't Oregon decline the penalty?

One obvious answer is they couldn't decline the penalty, but Rule 10, section 1, article 1, subsection (b) of the NCAA football rules states "any panalty may be declined." I assume this rule is the same in the nfl.

So is this an etiquitte thing (which sounds like a silly rational to me, the game is about winning), or are a lot of coaches making an error here, or am I missing something?

Thanks, J.R.

[/ QUOTE ]

This happened in a Rutgers game this season, I believe against South Florida. Coach Schiano declined the delay of game penalty that USF sought to give their punter more room. I believe it was 4th and 7, and there were about 30 seconds left in the half. When Schiano declined the penalty, USF flipped Rutgers the bird and went for it, and got it, winding up with a bonus FG to end the half. After the game Schiano said he'd never do that again.

I've always imagined that the reason you generally don't decline the penalty is to make sure that the other team punts and you get the ball. Leaving them at 4th and 4 to 9 say, at that part of the field, leaves the door open to a fake.