($60) 5-handed, shopping for some blinds w/KQo
 

$60 Stars tubo
Seat 5: (2475 in chips)
Seat 7: (1365 in chips)
bluefeet (3150 in chips) Button
Seat 2: (4700 in chips) SB
Seat 3: (1810 in chips) BB

All post the ante 25
L7 100/200 +25

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bluefeet [K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
2 folds
bluefeet: ???

My image: I had sat quiet until 100/200, picking up JJ in EP, pushing 9bb's. Seat-3 called with AK, and I held up. Soon after I call a shorter Seat-2's push w/AK, him hitting a Q to fill his AQ. Short again, I push 77 into a 88 and land a river 7. So basically, I've been involved in most of the more recent hands, all justifiable moves.

Seat 2: The loosest of the bunch. Making some pretty loose AI calls during the mid-levels, with his stack going up and down appropriately.

Seat 3: Solid player. Pretty tight throughout, taking his shots in position. Getting doubled up earlier with Aces.


So...what do you do here? I'll save you the SnGPT look-up, pushing sucks. If you're not folding, what ARE you doing, and what is your plan facing aggression from either blind PF?

Re: ($60) 5-handed, shopping for some blinds w/KQo
 

Make it 550, fold to a shove.

Re: ($60) 5-handed, shopping for some blinds w/KQo
 

[ QUOTE ]
$60 Stars tubo
Seat 5: (2475 in chips)
Seat 7: (1365 in chips)
bluefeet (3150 in chips) Button
Seat 2: (4700 in chips) SB
Seat 3: (1810 in chips) BB

All post the ante 25
L7 100/200 +25

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bluefeet [K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
2 folds
bluefeet: ???

My image: I had sat quiet until 100/200, picking up JJ in EP, pushing 9bb's. Seat-3 called with AK, and I held up. Soon after I call a shorter Seat-2's push w/AK, him hitting a Q to fill his AQ. Short again, I push 77 into a 88 and land a river 7. So basically, I've been involved in most of the more recent hands, all justifiable moves.

Seat 2: The loosest of the bunch. Making some pretty loose AI calls during the mid-levels, with his stack going up and down appropriately.

Seat 3: Solid player. Pretty tight throughout, taking his shots in position. Getting doubled up earlier with Aces.


So...what do you do here? I'll save you the SnGPT look-up, pushing sucks. If you're not folding, what ARE you doing, and what is your plan facing aggression from either blind PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm raising way worse than your hand here, and the price is 500 - 550.

Re: ($60) 5-handed, shopping for some blinds w/KQo
 

BB's stack size is bothersome. I don't think a fold would be flat out terrible here because of that and your own stack size.. but I think the default play and probably correct one would be to do a standard raise.

Re: ($60) 5-handed, shopping for some blinds w/KQo
 

[ QUOTE ]
Make it 550, fold to a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright - that'll do.

I posted this as punishment for making a move that might be a common mistake for some.

I INCORRECTLY applied logic that my raise amount needed to be bigger to slip this past the loose-SB to get my hands on BB's chips. In doing so, creating a FALSE sense of committedness having passed the first test, now facing a push from BB -- with a range that certainly dominates the KQ.

"Make it 550, fold to a shove." - perfect answer IMO.

Re: ($60) 5-handed, shopping for some blinds w/KQo
 

[ QUOTE ]
So...what do you do here? I'll save you the SnGPT look-up, pushing sucks. If you're not folding, what ARE you doing, and what is your plan facing aggression from either blind PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given all the action and havoc I've been wreaking, I may fold this in earlier position.

But whatever your standard raise would be, this seems like a spot for it.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm raising way worse than your hand here, and the price is 500 - 550.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I am, he's been involved and contesting too many pots.

Re: ($60) 5-handed, shopping for some blinds w/KQo
 

Forgive me guys, but I'm having hard time with the 'raise, but fold to BB shove' line here.

There's 2585 in the pot after BB's raise, 1260 for us to call. That's just over 2:1. If we call and lose, we'll still have a shortish but playable stack of 1340.

If you decide to raise to 550, I don't see how you can fold to a push from the BB unless he is the tightest of players. Your odds of over 2:1 hold up pretty well against his pushing range vs a standard button raise, IMO. If you ran into a dominating hand, that's bad luck, but I can't fault your call. Is it so hard to see him pushing vs a standard button raise with, say, 77-JJ in addition to the hands that dominate you?

Re: ($60) 5-handed, shopping for some blinds w/KQo
 

I'm going to do some calculations on this in a little while, so we can determine which is the best play.

Re: ($60) 5-handed, shopping for some blinds w/KQo
 

Ok let us assume that SB will only re-raise all-in with TT+, AK+ (probably too tight - but it'll do for a starting point) and that BB will do so with 88+, AQ+.

Now we hold KQo so

88,99,TT,JJ,AA 6 ways
QQ 3 ways
KK 3 ways
AK 4*3 ways = 12 ways
AQ 4*3 ways = 12 ways

So

R 500, Rr/F SB 0.2111 ( (24 + 12) / 1225 ) = 0.029%
R 500, Rr/F BB 0.2034 ( (36 + 24) / 1225 ) = 0.049 * (1 - 0.029) = 0.04754%
R 500, Both F 0.2541 ( (1-0.029) * (1-0.04754) of time ) = 0.924469%

Thus if we always fold to a push from either (SB is a no brainer) then

(0.2541 * 0.924469) + (0.2034 * 0.04754) + (0.2111 * 0.029) = 0.2349 + 0.00967 + 0.00620 = 0.2508

.. which is obviously a lot more than 0.2316. So the raise, we can say for certain, is correct.

Now if he really is re-raising with 88+,AQ+ we should obviously fold KQo here. Our equity is only 0.311366 against this range..

Fold 0.2034
Call/Win 0.3296
Call/Lose 0.1193

(0.3296 * 0.311366) + (0.1193 * 0.688634) = 0.1026262336 + 0.0821540362

= 0.1847802698 which is way less than 0.2034, definite fold.

All interesting stuff..

Re: ($60) 5-handed, shopping for some blinds w/KQo
 

Thanks Tigerite, very nice post