A strange BB hand
 

5 handed, very first hand at the table so no reads

Preflop MP limps, SB limps, i check A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB.

Flop A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

sb checks, I bet, MP calls, sb calls

Turn 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
sb checks, i bet, MP raises, sb folds, i call

River 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet, Mp raises, i call

is more hand strong enough to raise preflop? and is the river just a check call?

Re: A strange BB hand
 

Hate the river B/C.

Re: A strange BB hand
 

I wouldn't raise this hand preflop, everyone would call and you don't have much of an edge, if any. Maybe MP is passive preflop and limped with AT or better and is raising TPGK here on the turn. In a pot this small, I think we can make a case for folding the turn. If you want to call the turn, almost any line would be better than bet/call on the river. There is four to a straight on the board, three to a flush, you got raised on the turn...I don't think he flips up two pair without the ace much of the time. The limit this is at would help.

Re: A strange BB hand
 

its .5/1.

can i really fold this even with an OE straight draw?

Re: A strange BB hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
its .5/1.

can i really fold this even with an OE straight draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

On the turn, you have the bottom card in an OESD and you are getting 6-1 pot odds. But if the 9 comes, you have the ass end of the straight. Additionally, two spades are already out, so you could probably discount those. So, you don't have many outs and you might be drawing dead. I don't think you have the odds to continue. But a lot of this is read dependent, as you know, and since you just sat down you need to make this call without much info. I guess with no reads, you can call the turn and and check/call the river. But I'm folding the turn.

Re: A strange BB hand
 

RIVER: Making your five on the river is not too good. Any nine made a straight. Since it's a spade it's even worse. I probably check/call here and expect to lose a lot. Bet fold might be better for getting value.

Re: A strange BB hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, you have the bottom card in an OESD and you are getting 6-1 pot odds. But if the 9 comes, you have the ass end of the straight. Additionally, two spades are already out, so you could probably discount those. So, you don't have many outs and you might be drawing dead. I don't think you have the odds to continue. But a lot of this is read dependent, as you know, and since you just sat down you need to make this call without much info. I guess with no reads, you can call the turn and and check/call the river. But I'm folding the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Counting outs on the turn if Heros behind:
Hero might be drawing dead to a T9 made straight already and might be against a flush draw, so I'll give 3 outs for a four, 2 outs for a nine which gives any T a straight, 1 out for a five and 1 out for an ace.

I count a pretty generous 7 outs, but a peel looks OK to me.

Hero won't be able to get too aggressive with anything he catches though, especially a five.

There's a chance Hero is still ahead on the turn though (if Villian is the type to raise the turn with an OES, flush, or combined OES and FD.) But if Villian is on a draw the 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is one of the worst cards that could come.

On the river, I'm going to check/call. Maybe a bet fold would be better though, for getting value when ahead.

Re: A strange BB hand
 

I would check\call the river here. I hate not getting to showdown on boards like this. When he raises you on the river, you're most likely beat.

However, some of the time, even at .5-1, opponents get pissed off at you for re-donking them and will raise again (especially as a bluff on this scary board). I would suspect you're losing here, and I definitely don't want to put 2bb in on the river.

I'd check\call and be a bit pissed if he checked behind (though you miss a little bit of value you make up for it by seeing a showdown and finding out what he limped in with and what he raised you on the turn with).

Please never fold the turn here at .5-1. You will often have a shitload of outs(you're only completely dead to T9, unfortunately you will see this here sometimes) and are still ahead in the hand quite often.