$2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

I have AKs in early position. I have raised the previous 3 hands to $13 pre-flop. Table was pretty tight, so people were folding around a lot. I expected someone to raise me one of these times, and my plan was to re-raise here, so I made it $13 again pre-flop. I think there was one caller, and 2+2er who was sb or bb made it $55. I went back on my original plan to re-raise since he had me covered, so I just called.(I had about $400) Heads up to the flop: A-J-10 rainbow. He bet $60. I was worried about JJ or 1010 here, because it was a pretty small bet for the size of the pot. A raise would pretty much commit me to the pot, so I just called. Turn was a 7. He checked, and I checked behind. River was another 7. He bet $100, I called.

Thoughts?

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

I think I hate all of it. I don't even know where to begin.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

Really? Strange. Preflop seems standard, flop can be raised, but a call seems fine, turn I would bet but checking can't be too bad, and river may be folded but against most 2+2ers you have to pay them off on the river after checking the turn. This hand seems fairly standard to me, so I'm not sure what you're objecting to so strongly.

Only thing I might do differently is either bet the turn or fold the river but it really depends on the opponent. Would be nice to have a read stronger than "2+2er". If this is BobboFitos, you should re-raise preflop.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
Really? Strange. Preflop seems standard, flop can be raised, but a call seems fine, turn I would bet but checking can't be too bad, and river may be folded but against most 2+2ers you have to pay them off on the river after checking the turn. This hand seems fairly standard to me, so I'm not sure what you're objecting to so strongly.

Only thing I might do differently is either bet the turn or fold the river but it really depends on the opponent. Would be nice to have a read stronger than "2+2er". If this is BobboFitos, you should re-raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, beat me to it. I think it's fine, in fact I play it exactly as OP did. Why do you think betting the turn is better?

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

Board is way too scary to be bluff check/raised and avoids you facing a potential overbet on the river.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
If this is BobboFitos, you should re-raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

-LOL (it wasn't btw, though he was at the table)

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

i think you could go ahead and reraise preflop, but since you didnt (no big deal) i think posflop is fine... you are probably an underdog to win the pot on the river, but he let you off pretty effing cheap and you do have a pretty hand, look him up.
basically, looks good!

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

Raising to $13 preflop every hand at 2/5 is standard? Planning to put in the third raise preflop with AK is standard? Calling a very big reraise preflop with AK in hopes of putting in as little money as possible postflop when you hit is standard?

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

Opening to 13 is fine if not standard, the re-raise is pot-sized and the opponent could be playing back at him. Doesn't mean he has to go broke postflop if he's behind or stop opponent from bluffing if he's ahead.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
Opening to 13 is fine if not standard, the re-raise is pot-sized and the opponent could be playing back at him. Doesn't mean he has to go broke postflop if he's behind or stop opponent from bluffing if he's ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

WOW 13?? When I was at the table it was really loose preflop. Were you there with the guy wearing the crazy pink striped shirt? Also, a guy called Bobbo's PFR to 35 with K3o and doubled through Mr. Fitos on a 5 6 7 board. Needless to say, this game was softer than the 100NL IMO, which is full of a bunch of under bankrolled weak-tight college kids. The 2/5 game players like to gamb0000l. You probably caught the game at its best, or I could have caught it at its worst.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

If he's going to be fearful of a set whenever some high cards hit the board then he has no business being in the pot... I don't really think it's a great thing to get people to "play back at me" with better hands than mine.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

What about with worse hands than yours?

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

If I think he has a worse hand then I'm not going to freak out and try to get to showdown without investing anymore money.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

Allowing him to continue bluffing is not freaking out. And just because there may be a decent chance that he has a worse hand doesn't mean that we have to take a line that causes us to go broke the times that he has us beat, right?

Edit: What's your alternative line? And I think my comments are more directed towards a BobboFitos type of 2+2er or a TheWorstPlayer type of 2+2er and not necessarily a generic 2+2er. It would help to know who this guy is or a more specific read.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

TWP,

soah obviously wants to stick in a bunch of money and get insta called by A2

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

I don't think the actual play of the hand ended up being terrible, but I hate the logic that was used throughout. Minraising preflop four hands in a row doesn't make sense, and with the exception of shortstack/all-in situations, I can honestly say that I have never raised preflop with AK with the plan of reraising anyone that comes over the top of me. AK is not a big hand and this is just LAG chip-spewing.

When the flop comes out the 2+2er is doing everything imaginable to telegraph a very marginal holding, yet our Hero is seeing monsters. There is virtually nothing given in the form of hand reading (other than "I think he might have a set") and all the decisions are based upon the thought process of "I have a marginal hand, and I have a couple of nut outs that I don't want to let go of, so I'll just try to hit them as cheap as possible." At the start of the hand Hero though he had a great image to play a big pot with AK with, but now suddenly there is no longer any consideration given to his image, and nothing at all is written about what his opponent might put him on at any point in the hand. He has hit an action board and he's just thinking about his own cards and using TPTK as a bluff catcher.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

The problem is that TPTK IS only a bluff catcher on an AJT board. On a K98 two-tone board, I would be much happier going nuts on the flop.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

soah you have a real disconnect in your logic

feeling you have the best hand given the action and a hand worth raising are not the same thing

"hit an action board" ? no idea wtf that is supposed to mean and why it's a good thing for the hero

usually an action board is meant to refer to a board where multiple players can have strong hands and strong draws -- ie you generally want to have more than one pair on an action board

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

Action boards are places where you are not WA/WB and the betting in this hand makes it look very much like Hero is ahead, yet he makes no effort to put his opponent on a hand or to protect his hand.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

Would be nice to have a read stronger than "2+2er". If this is BobboFitos, you should re-raise preflop.

I didn't want to put 2+2ers name on since I'll post results, in case he wouldn't want me to. He doesn't post too much on 2+2, so saying who he is I don't think would effect the way anyone here would play the hand, because I don't think anyone on the forum would have a real good idea of how he plays.

I think there was maybe 4-5 2+2ers at our table at one point though. BobboFitos was at the table, but he wasn't in the hand.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

here's a little tip for anyone who plays these smaller live nl games. RAISE MORE PREFLOP. $13? wtf?

it doesn't matter what the table's "standard" open is. you are the table's standard. make it 30 to go always. after you do it a few times, people will realize that you aren't going to change and they will start making big preflop errors because they really love QJ suited.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

I agree, $13 wasn't the standard, it just happened to be what I did the 3 hands before, so I figured someone may play back at me. I think there were several players at the table with $100-$200 stacks, so I was going to re-raise them if they raised me.

That's the way I thought about it when I put it out there, that's the only reason I made it $13. I agree with you though.

RESULTS
 

He turned over 9-8 for a straight, and took it down.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
If this is BobboFitos,
you should re-raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

There were actually 2 cold callers, making a blind squeeze more attractive. Thats a very important detail.

And no, it wasnt me. And yes, vs me I probably have nothing and getting all in w/ AK is a godsend.

But, against this player, (good friend of mine) I believe strongly the right play is to fold preflop, even after inducing the reraise. He simply is not messing around often enough; it's aces or kings 70% of the time, with AK/QQ/JJ/89ish hands other 30%.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

I was villain in this hand, just wondering what some of you thought of my play in this hand. Obviously i had witnessed snow raise 4 hands in a row to $13 and viewed this play as just building a pot with a marginal holding, I did not expect any callers especially since he was reraised by the tightest player in the casino. Once he called the flop bet and checked behind on the turn i was 95% sure he had AK, which is why i made it "cheap" for him (knowing he was playing solid and probably wouldn't call much more than $100).

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was villain in this hand, just wondering what some of you thought of my play in this hand. Obviously i had witnessed snow raise 4 hands in a row to $13 and viewed this play as just building a pot with a marginal holding, I did not expect any callers especially since he was reraised by the tightest player in the casino. Once he called the flop bet and checked behind on the turn i was 95% sure he had AK, which is why i made it "cheap" for him (knowing he was playing solid and probably wouldn't call much more than $100).

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Gary, I think your play in this hand was great.

Preflop was a perfect spot for a squeeze play, op had been raising a lot, two cold calls of someone who has raised a lot recently, and your tight image.

Flop fine, turn fine, good value bet on the river.

nh.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
here's a little tip for anyone who plays these smaller live nl games. RAISE MORE PREFLOP. $13? wtf?

it doesn't matter what the table's "standard" open is. you are the table's standard. make it 30 to go always. after you do it a few times, people will realize that you aren't going to change and they will start making big preflop errors because they really love QJ suited.

[/ QUOTE ]

I smell live game experience...all I can say is "ditto."

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

Snow, I'm not trying to nitpick here, but why, o why, were you opening the first 2 hands for $13 to begin with? Even if you were raising with implied stuff, why not try to make it look like a real hand?

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

I was villain in this hand, just wondering what some of you thought of my play in this hand.

I thought it was very good. Like I mentioned to you on our way to eat, the relatively cheap flop bet made it look like you were trying to trap me with JJ or 1010, which is why I didn't raise you. The only hands I figured I beat at the time was AQ or KK. 1010, JJ, AA, AJ have me way behind, and althought I doubted you had them, KQ and A10 also have me way behind.

I personally love the turn check. I think 95% of players bet that turn in my situation, seeing you bet small on the flop and check the turn after you make a hand that would be nearly impossible for me to put you on. I think it's a huge moneymaker.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

Snow, I'm not trying to nitpick here, but why, o why, were you opening the first 2 hands for $13 to begin with? Even if you were raising with implied stuff, why not try to make it look like a real hand?

Because I'm crazy. That's the only explanation I have. Seriously.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

I think it may be partly because I like to get it heads up if I can, or 3 handed to the flop. All the strong players at the table were to my right, so I wasn't really worried about going into pots with the other people at the table. I think in live play I get bored, so I do it to entertain myself. I hope making making raises each time, even though they are small, will make people think I'm a crazy player, just because of the fact I'm raising all the time.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

looks fine, you only beat AQ or a "bluff" (KK, QQ, 99..)

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
I personally love the turn check. I think 95% of players bet that turn in my situation, seeing you bet small on the flop and check the turn after you make a hand that would be nearly impossible for me to put you on. I think it's a huge moneymaker.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't. You check the turn and now face a pot sized bet on the river, or more. Now what do you do? You checked to induce a bluff. Did you get it? And what if he didn't hit on the turn. He's still going to check, and now you're letting him draw for free. And it is a super easy instamuck if he wants to put any more money in the pot after you bet the turn so it makes the hand a lot easier to play. I don't like your turn check that much.

Only time I really like it is if he is very aggro and will bluff check/raise the turn and also bluff the river very often when you check the turn. If this guy is the tightest guy in the casino (which you didn't mention) betting the turn is definitely better. Why let him draw at a 5-8 outer for free? And yeah, you probably have a muck if he pots the river, but you MAY have induced a bluff which would be pretty bad.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

They will make some people think you're a crazy player and it will, in essence, buy you some implied odds...all of which is well worth the price in a deep money live game. I guess I always take the attitude that I'm going to make it at least 3xBB with my good and "bad" openers so that I can raise the appropriate amount with my good hands.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

I just realized that I'm retarded and thought you were saying you loved your OWN turn check. Now that I realize you were saying you love HIS turn check, I don't love that either. There is a very high likelihood that you are drawing live against him either with a set or a gutshot. He should bet the turn to protect and to build the pot, hoping to get raised.

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

when he called me on the flop i was pretty much deciding to give up the pot...but then to my surprise i hit my hand on the turn. I was in between betting the turn or checking, I thought checking might give him the idea that i had KK/QQ or air and would that I would give it up to a bet

Re: $2/$5 NL ($300 max) hand at Turning Stone vs. 2+2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
I thought checking might give him the idea that i had KK/QQ or air and would that I would give it up to a bet

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Wouldn't this cause him to check though?