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bluewilde 08-10-2005 09:43 PM

A Pacific Trout Hand
Went out on a sloppy play but it makes me think of a much broader question.

You're medium or shortstacked, but not yet push/folding. You're in LP with a good but not great hand. It's folded to you.

If you push, it will only be called by hands that beat you, but it might get called by weaker-than-usual hands as your overbet is suspicious. If you raise a lesser than push amount, it looks like a steal and invites resteals. Your hand is too strong to open-fold.

Basically I'm asking how to play your hand without getting into a stealing war, especially if your hand has some real value.

In this case, I had about 10BB in the SB. It's 6-handed. BB has about 25BB. I get KQ, folded to me. I raise 3BB, villain pushes, I conclude he's probably on a resteal (villain has been aggressive; never shown garbage at showdown, BUT has taken down a number of pots without having to reveal his hand) and call.

Freudian 08-10-2005 09:45 PM

Re: A Pacific Trout Hand
If you are going to call a push, why raise to 3xBB?

bluewilde 08-10-2005 09:48 PM

Re: A Pacific Trout Hand
Yeah, at the time 2000 into a 300 chip pot seemed ugly. In hindsight I think about my 600 raise as "more than a third of my stack" and know my raise was wrong. I do not like my line and would not defend it.

If I had limped, should I have called a push? It's still likely that I'm being bullied. I'm wondering how do you stand up to a guy with a less-than premium hand. Can you?

Edit: I tend to wait for an absolute premium hand, or get frustrated and move with a low PP or a weak ace or KQ. I'm pretty sure that's wrong.

Erik Blazynski 08-10-2005 10:28 PM

Re: A Pacific Trout Hand
I dont know the structure of the tournamnet, but with 10 BB you need to make a move. Folded to you, all-in is your move here. You are better that 2 random hands. If you get called you are not that much of a dog unless you are up against a big pair. If the guy is willing to call off half of his chips here then god bless him, but I think you have to push pre flop.

Lets assume for a moment that you don't and he pushes, now you have the tough decision to make instead of him. You have to fold in this case, and hope for another chance.

If your deep in a tourney and have less than 7 BB or in that area, you have to push with a weak ace or KQ. But you should try not to get into that position. As a rule I start putting chips in play when I am down to about 20 BB.


Freudian 08-10-2005 10:32 PM

Re: A Pacific Trout Hand
The problem with the 3xBB raise (and especially in the Trout tourneys) is that you will get resteal attempts from hands you don't want to play against with KQ. Not necessarily hands that crush yours but hands you would rather fold. A push will get BB to fold some of those hands.

shejk 08-10-2005 10:42 PM

Re: A Pacific Trout Hand
To answer the general question...

I think what you're talking about is when you have like 12-15 bb - ie if you get reraised it will most likely be for all your chips (up til 10-12bb it is pushable imo). So what you need to do is simply consider before raising if you will call a push. If not, your cards doesn't really matter much. This isn't really an argument for stealing less, just that you don't need to feel obliged to do it just because you got a low pocket pair or something.

Often you will be able to say that these cards are good enough to call a push from one of those two opponents, but if one of the others push I will fold.

Anyways, to the KQ hand... That's a monster from sb. It's easily pushable with 10bb imo. Against aggressive opponents I'd probably choose to raise/call with it.

On the bubble, I'd push rather than raise/call though. It'd have to be a very specific situation for me to fold KQ first in from the sb though.

EDIT: What is specific about these "trout" tournaments? I've never played on pacific.

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