Common problem with super-draws
 

My first post in MNL! Gotta love the split!

The problem...

Let’s say you and villain are deep stacked in a 2/4 game with around 1,000 each. Villian is a TAG and will bet strong if he plays, but does not often get out of line.

You have T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and find yourself HU with villain on the flop. The action is on you, and you are OOP. There’s $30 in the pot.

The flop is: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] x

How often do you lead for pot or less? How often does hero overbet (and by how much)? If you do not lead, please offer your reasoning.

I will post a follow-up question about the turn later today.

Re: Common problem with super-draws
 

If Villian raised, I like a check raise on flop. Whenever I have a hand like this and a flop that strong, I say to myself I am going to play a big pot. I only bet this flop if in position and checked too.

Re: Common problem with super-draws
 

In this example I will lead almost 100% of the time with normal 100bb stacks and hope I can 3-bet push.

With 250bb its a little tougher and I probably check and call and might make a move on any turn.

Re: Common problem with super-draws
 

Reason I like a check raise is if he just calls flop bet and turn is a blank, then you can decide if you want to back down or not from the hand. It always sucks betting turn and then getting checkraised for the rest of your stack with one card to come. I guess it could be worse though!

Re: Common problem with super-draws
 

[ QUOTE ]
If Villian raised, I like a check raise on flop. Whenever I have a hand like this and a flop that strong, I say to myself I am going to play a big pot. I only bet this flop if in position and checked too.

[/ QUOTE ]

You never lead OOP? If not, I'm interested in your thinking here...

tyvm

Re: Common problem with super-draws
 

[ QUOTE ]
If Villian raised, I like a check raise on flop. Whenever I have a hand like this and a flop that strong, I say to myself I am going to play a big pot. I only bet this flop if in position and checked too.

[/ QUOTE ]
c/r is limit play IMO. About the only time I do that is when I have top pair bad kicker and want to win it right there and can slow down if called. Of course, you have to do it once in a while for deceptive purposes.

Re: Common problem with super-draws
 

The deeper the stacks, the more my action depends on what I know about my opponent. "TAG who doesn't get out of line much" isn't really enough information. If I somehow end up playing deep and don't have a read (say he was deep when I sat and I tripled up within my first orbit), I try to play small pots until I have a better feel for how hard I have to push things to make him fold. This often has me in check/call mode with huge draws like an OESFD because they'll rarely give you poor immediate odds (you can call a PSB on an OESFD). With weaker draws, I just don't get involved.

I think your example has a typo, too, as there are 2 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the deck.

Re: Common problem with super-draws
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think your example has a typo, too, as there are 2 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the deck.

[/ QUOTE ]
New deck CHEF [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: Common problem with super-draws
 

A lead is fine, but if Villian raised this pre-flop and is checked too, he will almost always fire a bet, thus you check raise and he either lays down his overs and you win pot or he three bets his AA, KK and you suckout or he just flat calls and you have to play poker on turn. If you always lead the flop this allows overs to get away easily and I feel your hand loses value. When calling a raise with this type of hand dont we want to play a big pot with such a huge draw?

Re: Common problem with super-draws
 

Thanks, I'll fix the typo ASAP.

Quote:
"I try to play small pots until I have a better feel for how hard I have to push things to make him fold."

Question: Do you want him to fold the flop, or are you trying to gauge it for a move on a later street?