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-   -   Ooops I missed. Line check? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=402450)

Lloyd 12-21-2005 05:20 PM

Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?
 
Position. Position. Position. I don't see how bluffing at an aggressive LAG out of position is the most profitable situation to be in.

Pre-flop. Obviously you're hand is ahead of his range. If I had position I'd raise even if I thought he'd call me. It's not just to win the pot pre-flop but to make it easier to play post flop. In the blind, out of position, I don't necessarily mind just completing as I don't want to play a big pot against this type of player out of position.

I really don't know what to say about your flop and turn bets. You're making a move on him. If you think you can outplay him that way then great. But against that type of player it's tought. If he's just a calling station (post flop) then I think it's more profitable then if he's a LAG who will very likely raise your bet. You might have the best hand here. In fact, if he's very laggy you're certainly ahead of his range with Ace high. But remember, monsters in the blinds are rarely played by leading out (which is why I love to lead out with monsters). But from his perspective, if he's good, he should know that by you leading out he can win the pot with a raise most of the time.

On the river, I don't see you getting called by a worse hand often enough to make the push profitable. I do like the check-call if he's aggressive. If he's a true calling station then I'd bet again on the river.

I don't know. I understand how to make moves in poker. But more often than not I'm up against someone who doesn't understand that they *should* fold when I'm making a move. ABC poker online is usually a more profitable standard. If I'm up against a good, thinking player then I can become creative. And if I have position I can certainly steal pots. But out of position against a possible calling station and I'd try and play this type of hand cheaply.

Yuv 12-21-2005 05:49 PM

Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?
 
This looks exactly like a hand I would have played. That's a problem for ya, wood [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Someone wrote very nicely - why this pot? I started to think about that point alot recently. I pick nearly random spots to make a stand, random pots that I decide I "must" win, for no real reason whatsoever, when I review it.

You get called there by J9s/KQ or even a real monster a hell of alot more than KJ/A9, at least that's the case for me. I can't see any information out there that gives me an idea that I'm ahead or got any real FE there. But since you thought you were ahead, I can't say anything about that push.

I don't like the line you took, since it reminds me of too much hand I busted on. You probably already know it, but to remind myself, you need to look for situations to pull a play. OOP, against a LAG, in an unraised pot, doesn't really sound like a good one.

ansky451 12-21-2005 11:12 PM

Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why you didn't raise PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he is the small blind. (Position)

Lloyd 12-22-2005 07:22 AM

Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why you didn't raise PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he is the small blind. (Position)

[/ QUOTE ]
And I do understand this. But what's odd about this line is that he's playing conservatively out of position pre-flop and aggressively post-flop.

woodguy 12-22-2005 10:09 AM

Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?
 
[ QUOTE ]
And I do understand this. But what's odd about this line is that he's playing conservatively out of position pre-flop and aggressively post-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was aggressive when ahead, and passive when drawing and I expected to get raised if I was behind, and take down this pot a lot on the turn.

Regards,
Woodguy

ansky451 12-22-2005 11:33 AM

Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?
 
You didn't say raise, I was reffering to Dave's question.

Dave D 12-22-2005 12:14 PM

Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why you didn't raise PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he is the small blind. (Position)

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make sense to me? Being the SB doesn't preclude him from raising? I don't understand why you wouldn't raise AJ when you know it's going to be HU. You probably have the best hand, or at worst a coinflip, why not reprsent it preflop? Furthermore, villian would have been more likely to believe hero's flop bet and maybe have folded.

woodguy 12-22-2005 01:21 PM

Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?
 
[ QUOTE ]


This doesn't make sense to me? Being the SB doesn't preclude him from raising? I don't understand why you wouldn't raise AJ when you know it's going to be HU. You probably have the best hand, or at worst a coinflip, why not reprsent it preflop? Furthermore, villian would have been more likely to believe hero's flop bet and maybe have folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think not raising PF was only one of many mistakes I made on this hand.

I should have taken control PF so my flop bets had more bite, but I don't always raise here either with AJo.

Regards,
Woodguy

mlagoo 12-22-2005 01:28 PM

Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?
 
i usually give up the turn against a lag and, having got to the river, i usually check/call (with the occassional bet/call) that particular river.

i def. dont mind the complete preflop. in fact i dont think you made any bad decisions in this hand -- the thing i like least is the river c/r. i think preflop can go either way, and you should be mixing it up (and likely are). i think the turn can go either way, and you should be mixing it up (and likely are). but i think c/r'ing this river is a loser, even against a LAG. he doesnt call enough with hands you beat, and he doesnt bet enough with hands you beat. or something like that.


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