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- - Folding QQ (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=182894)

Playing a $2-$5 PL game that is loose as a $0.10-$0.25 game. The usual buy-in is anywhere from $500-$1000 and the pots will get high quickly as the usual raise is the pot regardless of hand. most of the players are wealthy small business owners who love playing any draw for all their $.

I'm UTG with 2 black Queens and raise to $35 (max bring in is $30 UTG), MP player calls and Button calls.

Of the two callers - MP is a young kid who seems to be getting more hands than he knows what to do with. He'll call w/ any paint and raise any pair representing a bigger pair. The button is a maniac by all measures. He's got a big enough bankroll to cover 1000 buy ins. About 5 hands earlier he pushed his 5-8 vs AA, reraising every street to catch an open ended draw when the flop came 10-6-7.

Flop come 2s-3s-5c. I bet the pot ($120), MP folds and BB raises the pot ($360). I have $450 left in front of me and go into the tank.

I feel I'm ahead of the hand but knowing this player he could literally have anything at all. My gut feeling is he has A high flush draw giving him 11 outs (I have the Q of spades). He could easily have a set or A-4 for the made str8.

A little history...he's beaten so many people with rags that my thinking is if he does have the nut flush draw, I'd rather wait to get my $ in with more of an edge than what I have.

I decide to wait and fold the hand, he shows K5 spades....did I make a bad move?

He's a favourite to win the hand; but yes you did make a mistake.

I guess it all depends on your bankroll. He has a lot of outs to beat you...any spade, any king and any 5, so that's what, 14 outs and he has 2 shots. I guess you are slightly ahead, but it's marginal. I don't see a huge problem in waiting until your edge is greater. If he's willing to push here, he'll push later when you have him crushed. It's tough playing against guys who have that much more money than you though.

I disagree it's tough playing against players who have alot more money than you. It is tough to play on a short bankroll.

Yeah I definitely had mixed emotions here...I;ve been waiting and wanting him to pop me and when he finally did I gave the hand up. With the K-5 he has 8 outs to a flush + 3 K's + 2 5's to beat me...vs a guy that's just itching to get his money in the pot, i gotta think that the best move is to lay down and wait for a bigger edge.

But damn it pisses me off as I never had another chance all night.

Does anyone else fold here...just begging for a little reassurance I guess. Lol

I guess I should say that I matched the bigstack when I bought in about an hour before at $500. I was up $100 at that point and the reraiser in this instance was all in.

SO...I did have him covered.

I'm not retarted to buy into a game w/o enough money. My post that he has enough $ to cover 1000 times a buy was to illustrate that he's got money and will literally chase ANY draw.

Are you kidding? There's no way you can wait for bigger edge. If you pass up situations like this where you're 50/50 (and most of the time in this spot you'll be way over 50/50) with that much money in the pot, you're never going to win at this game - play lower if you're playing scared or push in happily...

I hear you, which was why I posted this.

It has nothing to do with the $, and being scared isn't something I'm worried about. The fold had nothing to do with anything except on the waiting game....3-1 on my $ should have compelled me to push at 50-50 tho and I understand that.

Thanks for the post - you're right.

I agree with gomberger.

The pots plenty big already - you can always call the raise and make a very/difficult fold on the turn if a spade hits.

If a non-spade hits turn its an easy push IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
If he's willing to push here, he'll push later when you have him crushed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont understand this. You say this like he is making an incorrect move here. You said yourself that he he has 14 outs which makes him close to even money with 2 cards to come, and hes getting more than 1:1 on his bet even if you call. He made you lay down your high pocket pair, he seems to be playing correctly.