how\'s this value bet?
 

20-40 good live game. lady who plays ok raises in mp, i 3 bet on button w/ AK, bb who is fishy calls, she calls.

the flop is 986 rainbow, checked to me, i bet, and they call.

turn is a T. checked to me and i check.

river is another 8. at this point i put bb on nothing and lady on AQ or AJ. they check to me again and this time i bet.

good bet or pure spew?

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

Hi mike,

I don't see how you can read the BB for nothing. What's he calling the flop with that isn't helped by the T on the turn?

It seems more likely that he has some crappy little pair like A6s or 22 and will call, he didn't bet it because the 4 straight scares him. It's not clear to me that the ok playing lady is going to call you with AQ on this board either. I vote for spew.

my 2 cents.
Eric

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

I like it.

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

id prefer the bet going in on the turn...

-Barron

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

id like to bet the turn here in case she has something like KJs or KQ...the fish may call with nothing and may have between 6 and 14 outs to beat you if you're still ahead.

i usually follow through with a bet on the turn and check behind the river in these spots.

as for how you played it that check on the turn and the 8 on the river makes it clear you dont have much of the board. the fish can't call w/ nothing but may call w/ a high and AJ or AQ from the lady will likely look you up.

i like the value bet as you played it...the only downside is if the fish is passive, there are many 1 pair hands he can have that will call and he will likely fold all losing hands...so when the fish calls you lose money in terms of ev value, when the lady calls, you win enough to derive value.

-Barron

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

At first blush I didn't mind the river bet, but on reflection I'm pretty sure it's bad. By 3-betting preflop you've narrowed your range of hands pretty significantly. No way you check the turn with most of those; the turn check basically screams "I have AK." Any thinking opponent with anything will call the river bet. Any thinking opponent with less than AK (maybe AQ) will fold. No value to the river bet.

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

A river bet is better as a bluff than it is as a value bet. You 3 bet preflop, you aren't getting called by AJ on the river.

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

I'm having a tough time making sense of the 2 replies who approve of this bet -- albeit they're from far more skilled players than am I.

I think we can all agree that the fishy BB is calling with any pair, as you've all but told them that you've got AK or AQs.

So versus the BB, there's absolutely no value to this bet. I also think the only hand the lady calls you with that you beat is AQ...that's a pretty darn thin value bet.

I wouldn't mind hearing some further explanation from the 2 regulars who "like" it.
I can't help but harken back to the theory of value betting from TOP, i think it was: it's not if you have the best hand, it's having the best hand the majority of TIMES YOU ARE CALLED. I don't see that happening here.

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

Might not mike play a big pocket pair this way?: when the T comes on the turn, he could be afraid of a straight, but not be worried about an overcard on the river, so he could check. When both his opponents check again, he would now bet his pair for value.

That said, most opponents would put him on A-K here and play accordingly.

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

this depends on how the other two players are playing. would the fishey player check-raise the flop with a pair on this flop? would he or mp bet a pair now that you checked the turn? are they the types to be too afraid to bet a pair or better because of the one card straight but not afraid to call with it? does the mp think you're fos enough to bluff two players on a board like this?

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Might not mike play a big pocket pair this way?:

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand the concept but I don't think it applies very well here. I mean, does the big bad preflop 3 bettor with KK really fear that either an EP raiser or a BB who called 3 cold has a SEVEN? Not likely. If the turn was a flush card then it's more plausible, but my guess is that mike and most of the rest of us bet the turn withan overpair in that situation as well. (Hell, you basically have to in order to avoid giving a free card).

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

You can't value bet when your hand is face up.

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

JQ also got there for the straight, which a blind might call two more with.

Having said that, I don't see how a worse hands calls here. Do these people think you would three bet pre flop with something worse than AK or AQ? Maybe you get another AK to laydown, but are AJ/KQ really going to call here? Maybe this has merit as a bluff (though I don't see many better hands laying down), but unless these people are really bad I don't see how you can call this a value bet.

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

Given that there zero chance you are folding out a better hand, you are left with what the % chance is you are good when called.

I really can't see how this is >50%

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
20-40 good live game. lady who plays ok raises in mp, i 3 bet on button w/ AK, bb who is fishy calls, she calls.

the flop is 986 rainbow, checked to me, i bet, and they call.

turn is a T. checked to me and i check.

river is another 8. at this point i put bb on nothing and lady on AQ or AJ. they check to me again and this time i bet.

good bet or pure spew?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd much prefer betting the turn, and taking the free showdown. Im not so sure that the river bet isnt more of a bluff than a value bet, because I really cant see that if you get called 55% of the time you win here. Though I would really like the follow through turn bet.

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

hi mike

that's a must bet.

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
hi mike

that's a must bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Unless it is to fold an AK held by MP, I don't get it.

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

You're only getting called by hands that beat you.

Nobody will fold a hand that beats you, as you have telegraphed AK.

This is a perfect place to check down. You win nothing by betting and stand to lose a BB.

~ Tilts

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

I'm not often this black and white about poker hands, but anyone who says the river bet is good here is flat out wrong. This bet will not get called enough by lesser hands.

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

BB is really the only hand u have to worry about. I would assume the lady would definitly bet the river with any sort of hand. I think if u can fold BB ur good here.

cant say they would give u credit for much, but they might not have much. if BB has a low pair, he probably calls though.

Re: how\'s this value bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You 3 bet preflop, while I wouldn't get called by AJ on the river, I recognize that crazy mike l would and approve of the bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

result
 

bb folded and lady called and was angry, she showed AQo.

Re: result
 

[ QUOTE ]
bb folded and lady called and was angry, she showed AQo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you really don't get ANY respect do you?

Re: result
 

Glad it worked it , i think this one was little thin though. Nice read!