2/5 Live hand against good LAG
 

2/5 NL at the Wynn, and I have about $400.

Villain is an asian LAG that plays downright good postflop. One limper, I raise to $25 with 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in MP, villain cold calls (which means he has two cards), limper calls.

$75 pot, 3 way flop which is
K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Limper checks, I bet $50 pretty quickly, villain makes it $150 just as quickly. Limper folds.

My thoughts are.. the only hand I would ever think that raises here is a deuce. KQ doesn't play this way. Something like 77 may occasionally do this but rarely. If he had a deuce wouldn't he have something to at least ponder? There is another person in the pot after all. If I had a deuce it would at least require some contemplation on my part as to whether I should raise or call. He's good enough to understand that my likely pushing range is AK minimum.

I just don't understand what hand he's representing. On the other hand the existence of the limper does cut down on the probability that he is on a hardcore bluff.

If I push I obviously only get called when beat, but I can likely get him to fold some better hands if he had opted to raise something like KQ there. Calling sucks. Folding seems like a safe and routine option but jeez I just don't buy his raise.

Thoughts?

Re: 2/5 Live hand against good LAG
 

Things become much easier if you don't raise preflop.

Re: 2/5 Live hand against good LAG
 

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Things become much easier if you don't raise preflop.

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Yah, but less profitable.

Re: 2/5 Live hand against good LAG
 

Against a player like that, I cant see raising with 99 and then betting that flop as being profitable.

You cant put him on a hand and I assume you really dont want to play for you stack here.

If you raise preflop, I think you have to either check and maybe call if he bets (and the other limper folds)....or bet /fold to his raise.

Re: 2/5 Live hand against good LAG
 

It depends...

What is his stack?
What level thinking is your opponent at?
Have you routinely been making continuation bets?
Were your actions when you bet the flop consistent in size, movement, and time with other times were you did indeed hold top pair?

This is a move that a good post flop player will make against a preflop raiser's continuation bet because they know that only AK, KQ, AA, and 2x can call. He is gambling even money that you will fold without one of those hands, and if you have shown that you can make a good laydown, he may have gained extra fold equity because he may think that he can get you to lay down KQ or AK because you would fear him holding trips.

It is a tough place to be which is why it works so good against the right opponents.

Re: 2/5 Live hand against good LAG
 

I like your play, and to me it looks like a fold

I reckon you won't be able to get him to fold a K, I don't know why you think you might be able to

So what sucks is if you push, you win $275 when he was on air but lose $325 when you're behind so you need for him to be on air like 60% of the time. I assume he's got you covered or close to?

I think he could have a 2 here, and I don't play much live, but online I see people raise very quickly with monsters. I think it might induce the guy who bet to call more often

I also think he could have AK, and yeah I would not be raising KQ here but how do you know he isn't? But even assuming he doesn't play KQ/KJ like this I still fold

Re: 2/5 Live hand against good LAG
 

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This is a move that a good post flop player will make against a preflop raiser's continuation bet because they know that only AK, KQ, AA, and 2x can call. He is gambling even money that you will fold without one of those hands, and if you have shown that you can make a good laydown, he may have gained extra fold equity because he may think that he can get you to lay down KQ or AK because you would fear him holding trips.

It is a tough place to be which is why it works so good against the right opponents.

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Very good post! We need more posts that include this type of play/thinking.

Re: 2/5 Live hand against good LAG
 

Fold... he has you enuf times here for this to be a good fold and will save you money in the long run.

Just out of curiousity, as I am going to the Wynn next weekend for the first time, how does the 2/5 NL normally play?

Re: 2/5 Live hand against good LAG
 

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Fold... he has you enuf times here for this to be a good fold and will save you money in the long run.

Just out of curiousity, as I am going to the Wynn next weekend for the first time, how does the 2/5 NL normally play?

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At its best? nitty passives w/ hands face up and 1-2 players who make the game good.

-JP