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- - K4s in SB (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=396357)

Ultimate Bet 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Villain is 29/22/5(PFAF).

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, CO raises, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

K4s isn't exactly a prime handed to be calling a raise with. However, given that there were 2 limpers prior to the raise, and a call after the raise, and I knew that the BB would call (extremely loose) along with the other limpers, I figured calling another $1.50 to take a stab at those 10.5 SB was good - is this thinking flawed?

Flop: (12 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets, Button folds, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

Villain had been putting in a continuation bet pretty much every time he raised preflop whether he hit or not. However, he -might- have the queen. I figured at this point I could give myself credit for 5 outs - my 3 King outs plus a possible backdoor flush, so I called.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, Hero calls, UTG folds.

A club comes down, but I just check/called. Looking back on it now I maybe should have c/r - thoughts?

River: (9.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

I hit my King. Once again, looking back on this, I think I should have c/r the turn and lead the river, especially considering I hit my King.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Thoughts?

[ QUOTE ]
Once again, looking back on this, I think I should have c/r the turn and lead the river, especially considering I hit my King.

[/ QUOTE ]
How often do you think CO is going to fold on the turn? Do you have any hand range you think CO could be on? my default answer is I don't like a c/r on the turn.

bet the river for value

I think this flop is a fold. Your Kings aren't worth a full 3 outs and you're not closing the action.

The only reason I could see for raising the turn is getting UTG to fold a better King or a pair. That would be cool, but I doubt he has a better King very often and you're going to have to catch to win even if you do get him to fold a pair. You also have to consider the likelihood of being 3-bet, which seems like a good possibility against such an agressive opponent.

I also think the chances of you taking down the pot with a turn raise are very slim, especially against two opponents.

If you check and call the turn you can also win an extra bet on the river a lot of the time.

grunch

Preflop is close, but calling is okay. You have good relative position to lead the flop with your flush draw and hope CO raises and traps everyone for two. Or if you flop something more vulnerable, you have good position to check/raise.

Fold the flop. There's no way your K outs are worth 3. Maybe 1 for the Ks, plus 1.5 for the BDFD. Not enough to peel.

Turn is fine. Check/raising sucks here as it will almost certinaly get you HU with the preflop raiser with K-high. Bad news.

You can't lead this river. He's not calling with a worse hand (except maybe AQ), but he might bet a worse hand. Check/call lets him keep bluffing and gets you to showdown. If you bet, you have to fold to a raise, and that's no fun.

Fold that flop. Giving yourself a full 3 outs for your kings is ridiculous as you have no kicker.

Checkraising the turn is silly; you ain't getting value for it, and you ain't folding the PFR.

Hell I'm not even enthused with your preflop call. You're getting (12-1.5)/1.5 = 7:1 (6:1? I hate you odds notation), with no connectedness and easily dominated top pair strength. Meh, not my cup of tea, but I might be in the minority here.

grunch

A call preflop with this, when you know the pot is going to be as big as it ended up being, is probably ok. If you are going to call with this hand, you need to know what to do with it postflop.

It is an extremely easy fold on the flop. You have basically nothing. I'd hesitate to give you as much as 1 out for the king (nowhere near 3), and so all you have is a backdoor 2nd nut flush draw, plus a little, so maybe 2 outs: certainly not 5. The pot isn't big enough to call this, so fold it. You can't even close this round of betting with a call, and someone could be planning a c/r of his typical continuation bet.

Check call the turn. Check raise doesn't serve any purpose.

Bet the river for value (the king outs are cleaner here than on the flop).

Preflop is fine.
Fold the flop, given that you didn't, check/call the turn, and then just donk the river.

You should have folded on the flop. Remember he could have a better K than you, you aren't closing the action. Ugh, super bad flop call. PF is ok, turn is perfect, river is good.

fyi the first strategy post I make in a hand is almost always a grunch, like this one.

here is my 2cents... I am inclined to fold that pre-flop, particularly with someone that aggressive at the table. If you are calling the flop I like a raise. Try and force out another hands that might improve to beat you. I think this is a raise or fold. Anyone else make a push at this pot?