Not a fossil bashing post
 

Fossilman,

Can you let us know how many major events you have entered in your life. It appears there are a couple crazy posts out there evaluating your skills based on a very small sample of experience. I would assume you haven't played enough major tournaments for non-informed people to draw any conclusion of your skill, if major tournaments is the measuring stick.

Maybe this can help shed some light on how pointless the recent Fossil bashing posts have been. (Unless of course you have entered 200 major tournaments and have only two cashes. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

I understand their point that you shouldn't be idolized, but that is not where these posts end up going.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

Kinda sad that someone has to preface his comments in this way...but unfortunately entirely necessary. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

Do you really think the world champion of poker, with a 5 million dollar payday, feels the need to come on this website and defend his reputation?

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

Probably not which is why it is so so so baffling why his online buddies on here seem so overprotective of him. Dude is almost set for life I seriously doubt if he cares some college aged kids think he is worlclass or not. The board is educational tool and entertaining for people to take part in....it's not something that should be taken all that seriously.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

Up to and including this year's main event, 7. 4 World Poker Finals, and 3 WSOP main events. Since this year's WSOP, 6. So, 2 final tables out of 13 tries in biggies for a win and a show, with 11 no-cash attempts.

Fields ranged from 89 to 2576, with 10 of the 13 between 300 and 700 players.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

Im just curious too know if Raymer's play has changed at all in the last several years at all?? How has his changed ??if indeed it has?? What factors account for the change??

These questions probably be best answered by Raymer but it seems like alot of you guys play with him semi regularly @ Foxwoods...feel free to chime in.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

also zaxx you're putting yourself in an impossible position by going what could be considered Greg Raymer's turf and debating his skill. I know you're only asking if he's overrated, but there's a selection bias in the people you're arguing with so it may not be that best idea.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

Why don't you do what Mason told you to do and search the site and the archives? You can answer some of your questions on your own and learn a lot as a bonus

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

So in other words, not enough of a sample size to prove talent, but a good indicator that there is some.

Really a silly argument of who is better. In a larry grossman interview with annie duke, she mentioned how her style matches up well with hellmuth. There is some of that to consider too. Just because A is better than B and B is better than C does not mean A is better than C.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think the world champion of poker, with a 5 million dollar payday, feels the need to come on this website and defend his reputation?

[/ QUOTE ]

was that a sarcastic shot at greg? i'm not sure.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think the world champion of poker, with a 5 million dollar payday, feels the need to come on this website and defend his reputation?

[/ QUOTE ]

was that a sarcastic shot at greg? i'm not sure.

[/ QUOTE ]


No it wasn't I'm saying that I think Greg has enough faith in himself to not be bothered by a bunch of anonymous posters writing about him.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

I agree with your point to some extent. The fact that he does come here and defend himself shows that he has respect for many of the "anonymous posters". He knows that most (several?) of us are sincere and value his input, even if it involves something as poker irrelevant as how he feels about people taking potshots at him.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

I dont think asking whether someone is overatted sould EVER be construed as a bashing of said person.(Ive mentionaed this example before) There can be a very strong case made that Joe Dimmagio was/is a completely overatted player. If I was a mamber of a baseball forum and the subject of Joe Dimaggios greatness constanty came up to such a degree that i thought other players like Musial, Mays, and Williams were becoming overshadowed I would certainly make similiar posts to the one i made in regards to the treatment of Raymer on this board. Would I then be guilty of character assasination against Dimaggio?? If I reasonably laid out statistics and a comparison of fielding,throwing, and baserunning skills would that be proof that I held some long standing agenda driven by envy to rip down Dimaggio; or would it just mean I wanted Dimaggio to be treated fairly and equally to all the other great players that played MLB>?

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

zaxx you have to understand that coming to this board, where raymer is a long time poster, you will encounter the type of people who will overreact to saying someone is overrated.


It's like arguing with a sportsfan about their hometeam, since their have a bias they are going to misinterpret when you say theyre overrated. There is a selection bias in the people you are arguing with, thats why you're getting into these arguments even though youre really not trashing raymer.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

[ QUOTE ]
There can be a very strong case made that Joe Dimmagio was/is a completely overatted player.

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Blasphemer.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

This does not address my point that there is not enough evidence to make any conclusions on playing ability with reasonable certainty.

I happen to agree that people star f--- too much here, with famous posters like fossilman, paul phillips, annie duke, etc. But you get that anywhere, in any endeavour.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

All Fossilman has to do is repeat a line by Ben Affleck in Boiler Room: "Gentleman, I am a fuc*ing millionare."

'Nuff said

All you have to do then ...
 

is think more like an ambassador when you post.

That is, make your point, but do it with words carefully selected to not be offensive. The words and phrases you have chosen carry strong implications that you were trashing me. If you had said the same thing with more neutral words, you could've made that point, and not raised any ire.

I'm glad you weren't trying to trash me. Nobody ever likes that. Maybe we'll get along here at some point despite the rocky start.

I hope so.

later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

[ QUOTE ]
There can be a very strong case made that Joe Dimmagio was/is a completely overatted player

[/ QUOTE ]

No such thing as an oveRATted Italian except for maybe "Sammy the Bull."

Vince

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think the world champion of poker, with a 5 million dollar payday, feels the need to come on this website and defend his reputation?

[/ QUOTE ]

I havn't been around here lately, so I havn't seen many of the 'fossil bashing' posts, but yes, I would think that while the money is nice, many poker players would also have a desire to be known as one of the best simply from a competitive standpoint.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

[ QUOTE ]
Up to and including this year's main event, 7. 4 World Poker Finals, and 3 WSOP main events. Since this year's WSOP, 6. So, 2 final tables out of 13 tries in biggies for a win and a show, with 11 no-cash attempts.

Fields ranged from 89 to 2576, with 10 of the 13 between 300 and 700 players.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[/ QUOTE ]

Question:

Do you think its a direct result of your style that you either go very far(final table) or don't make the money at all or is that just a coincidence?

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

I wouldnt presume to answer for a player who has the skill level of Greg, but yes whenever you play extremely aggressively and choose to take any positive EV gambles early on(EVCHIPS=EV TOURNEY) then by definition your "gambles" will produce much more variance. Of course with fields being as large as they are these days(2500 in the case of the WSOP) this style of play may perhaps be the only one which results in a reasonable expectation of a win. All this makes Harrington's recent results all the more incredible...is his book released yet?? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

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I seriously doubt if he cares some college aged kids think he is worlclass or not.

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don't leave out us old guys, now.

and i don't understand the whole Fossilman bashing going on. the guy has always been respectful to other posters and generous with his insights. he certainly has an above average understanding of the concepts needed to excel in poker tournaments as well.

cheers!

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

Zaxx,

The following is a quote from your 1st post on the Greg Raymer = Overrated thread you started.

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All this does/did not make Raymer a worlclass player...and quite frankly he isnt one.

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The 'and quite frankly isn't one' could certainly be construed as Raymer bashing.

While I have seen you often attempt to belittle his play and accomplishments albeit often with backhanded compliments, I have actually seen few posts that rank / defend him as the greatest or top or god like player you say we all make him out to be.

Me thinks you are trying to fix a problem that does not exist.

People often laud him for his insight, and recent accomplishment. They admire him for being a student of the game, working hard, sharing his thoughts, and succeeding at one of the most difficult goals one can set for themselves. One which most of us only dream about and will never come close to achieving.

The admiration for the accomplishment is a far cry from saying he is the best in the world.

And people defend him around here because of his posting history. If other top respected MTT posters would've won, you would see an equal amount of support for that person.

is\'nt this the Pot calling the Kettle black? I\'m LMFAO!
 

[ QUOTE ]
is think more like an ambassador when you post.

That is, make your point, but do it with words carefully selected to not be offensive. The words and phrases you have chosen carry strong implications that you were trashing me. If you had said the same thing with more neutral words, you could've made that point, and not raised any ire.

I'm glad you weren't trying to trash me. Nobody ever likes that. Maybe we'll get along here at some point despite the rocky start.

I hope so.

later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm sure you were thinking of choosing words that were not offensive when you called me Desmond Diarrhea and a 'moron' even after you knew i had never called you any offensive name or bashed you? talk about being an ambassador. gedthafugoutahere.

Re: Not a fossil bashing post
 

Lurshy, honestly when posting that ridiculousness didnt you feel silly?? I was bashing Greg by saying he isnt worldclass?? Oh, bc I said "quite frankly" I didnt believe he was worldclass?? Ya thats pretty harsh, lol. If thats the best you can dig up in all my comments well .... ridiculous IS the word or perhaps paranoid.

I never backtracked from anything. You may have inferred something from the original post that simpley wasnt there, that quite simply is your problem, not mine.

Re: is\'nt this the Pot calling the Kettle black? I\'m LMFAO!
 

Right, but Greg isn't a lower life form.

Big difference.

[ QUOTE ]
or bashed you?

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You are bashing him in the post which you are saying you never bashed him in. You bash him all the time. You have been bashing him for as long as I have been a member of this site.

Yet, you NEVER contribute anything. NOTHING. You have negative amounts of poker knowledge. You do realize this is a site about poker, and that you have the opportunity to expand your poker IQ, right? Yet, you don't choose to do that. All you do is continue to spew nonsense from that hole in your face. Yet, people are supposed to take you seriously and respect you and your opinions?

What a complete joke.

Not once have you ever demonstrated any amount of intelligence. I don't believe I have ever seen you make one post that wasn't completely ignorant and immature.

Period.

I remember trying to be civil and hold an intelligent discussion with you once. You were incapable of that then, and you still are.

And in case you have forgotten, Greg doesn't see your posts anymore.