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- - 20-40 Hand (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=344958)

20-40 game on PP. I have AQo on the button. 5 people limp. I limp. The SB and BB come. 8 to the flop (good game). Flop is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (I have no hearts). Everyone checks. The turn is the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Now the SB bets and everyone folds to me. SB is unknown. Your play?

Jeff

Call down. Maybe he was hoping to slow-play his set, maybe he now likes his flush draw, maybe he thinks you like your flush draw. However, I raise this PF. Might as well juice it with the best hand and position.

Raise this pf. Call down on turn, WAY ahead or Way behidn situation.

I see little reason to raise this preflop after 5 limpers and facing loose blinds. Suited, I do it cause it plays better multiway. Offsuit, all the 78s type hands are gaining implied odds against me and will make fewer mistakes postflop.

Jeff

Typical player would not bet out the turn with his set knowing that atleast 1/8 limpers would be holding an ace and bet the turn for him so he could c/r his set. So no set for him. Most likely A-weak or flushdraw. Definitely raise this and then fold to a three bet.

[ QUOTE ]
I see little reason to raise this preflop after 5 limpers and facing loose blinds. Suited, I do it cause it plays better multiway. Offsuit, all the 78s type hands are gaining implied odds against me and will make fewer mistakes postflop.

Jeff

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Your logic is faulty. Their implied odds don't change at all. However, their direct odds make it favorable for you to charge them now. It is true that they won't make as many mistakes, but they will pay you off correctly drawing to their outs. That is good too. Try it out, plug 5 limping hands into Pstove and compute your equatiy.

Here I'll do three:

Hand 1: 21.0309 % [ 00.20 00.01 ] { AQo }
Hand 2: 20.4265 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { 66 }
Hand 3: 10.4975 % [ 00.10 00.01 ] { 87s }
Hand 4: 05.8367 % [ 00.05 00.01 ] { A7o }
Hand 5: 20.0051 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { J8s }
Hand 6: 22.2032 % [ 00.22 00.00 ] { K4s }

OMG, K4s is the best hand. still with more than 1/6 eq, you are served to raise.
Hand 1: 29.0741 % [ 00.29 00.00 ] { AQo }
Hand 2: 13.0854 % [ 00.13 00.01 ] { 66 }
Hand 3: 14.1821 % [ 00.13 00.01 ] { 87s }
Hand 4: 07.0412 % [ 00.07 00.01 ] { 65o }
Hand 5: 21.2543 % [ 00.20 00.01 ] { J8s }
Hand 6: 15.3629 % [ 00.15 00.00 ] { 33 }

Clearer here, but none of your cards are gone.

Hand 1: 23.0640 % [ 00.22 00.01 ] { AQo }
Hand 2: 10.5298 % [ 00.09 00.01 ] { A3s }
Hand 3: 20.0305 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { T7s }
Hand 4: 21.4472 % [ 00.21 00.01 ] { KJo }
Hand 5: 13.5367 % [ 00.13 00.01 ] { J8s }
Hand 6: 11.3918 % [ 00.11 00.01 ] { 33 }

Still a raise.

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Your logic is faulty

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Isn't just calling with AQo in that situation right out of HPFAP?

CSC,

When you do these calcs, try using a range of hands for the limpers instead of specific hands. PokerStove is great because it allows you to do exactly that. It takes a little longer to get the numbers, but it's worth it and correctly applies to the situation.

[ QUOTE ]
Typical player would not bet out the turn with his set knowing that atleast 1/8 limpers would be holding an ace and bet the turn for him so he could c/r his set. So no set for him. Most likely A-weak or flushdraw. Definitely raise this and then fold to a three bet.

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Against a player who will only 3 bet you if you're drawing dead this is probably ok, but that defination doesn't apply to a lot of online players.

Against an unknown i'd call the turn and raise/bet any non heart river.

lf

raise pf. after reading some writing and some sims by fekali i am convinced raising hands like aq and ak as the best way preflop even in super loose games.

otherwise i call down.