I say I\'m sorry as I check-raise
 

So I got into a situation tonight and I don't think I acted so horribly but another player was extremely unhappy.

Anyway, this is a live 10/20 half kill game. Its 6 handed and I pick up KK in the SB. The half-kill is mine.

The Cut off and I have played two hands recently. One the board paired jacks on the flop, and he got unlucky. I had AJ, he had some worse jack, I dont' know, he folded to my river bet after I 4 bet the turn. On another recent hand I sucked out with second pair to his top pair, having caught trips on the river. He didn't bet the turn so that's on him.

This has generally been a friendly game. Its aggressive, to be sure, but friendly nonetheless.

So, he opens for $30 in the CO. I make it $45 in the SB. He makes it $60, and I just call.

The flop comes Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

I lead. He raises. I 3-bet. He calls.

The turn is the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Given our history and the way he's played prior hands with me and others, I decide to check-call the turn, knowing he won't bet a hand like 99 or TT on the river if that's infact what he's holding. I'd have a hard time calling a river bet u/i, but the pot at this point is 7 BB's, and even discounting my King outs I think my tens are clean so I'm seeing the river.

Anyhoo, I check, he bets and I call.

The river is the T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and I check. He bets. I line up $60 in chips, saying "sorry" at the same time, knowing full well he woudln't bet less than an ace on the river.

He calls, mucks his AQ in disgust and walks away.

A few minutes later he comes back to the table saying "You don't say "sorry" and check-raise." I say, "I was."

Anyways, he wasn't happy. Perhaps I should have simply said nothing?

I mean, I know that in retrospect I should have said nothing. But I'm fairly new to live play and I'm curious how you guys deal with keeping the table friendly when something like this happens. I mean, I don't think his reaction would have changed much if I'd said nothing. He was stuck and slightly steaming. I don't know. Maybe I don't have a question. But if anyone has a simliar account of pissing of an agreeable player, I'd love to hear it.

Re: I say I\'m sorry as I check-raise
 

Maybe you check-raise and wait until after the hand to say "Sorry"?

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Sounds like he was probably just letting off a bit of steam. Eventually he'll take in a big pot or take a pot off of you and you can say something nice then I suppose.

Re: I say I\'m sorry as I check-raise
 

Saying sorry is worse than saying nothing, IMHO. Apologizing as you bet is less likely to elicit a call than saying nothing, I would think.

Re: I say I\'m sorry as I check-raise
 

Similar thing happened to me, but I said 'sorry' after the hand was over. I had AQ, he had KQ, and the flop was KQx. We went 3 bets, then the turn was an A. When we showed down and I saw he was ahead on the flop, I said 'sorry.' And he flipped out and called me "smarmy" or a "smart-ass," can't remember which. I was being the opposite -- just apologetic and friendly because I never like being the d|ck at the poker tables.

Anyway, I think you're best off just saying nothing, because opponents who lose frustrating hands like that often think you're being sarcastic when you say 'sorry.' You're not, but you still check-raised him, so how sorry can you be? If you're going to say 'sorry' before the hand is over, just donk the river and apologize, don't check-raise. If you're going to check-raise, wait until the hand is over to apologize or don't apologize at all.

Re: I say I\'m sorry as I check-raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're not, but you still check-raised him, so how sorry can you be?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, after he'd sais "You can't say sorry and check-raise" the guy next to me said, "He has to check-raise." Check-raising is not some evil, evil thing and I am not sorry I played the river well. FWIW, I can be sorry and play a hand the way it should be played.

I totally understand your point, but, intellectually speaking, we shouldn't play sub-optimally because we like the guys we're playing with and we sucked out. He obv didn't see it that way, and most people wouldn't. But its a very real distinction.

Re: I say I\'m sorry as I check-raise
 

I liked this part best...

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I think you're best off just saying nothing, because opponents who lose frustrating hands like that often think you're being sarcastic when you say 'sorry.' You're not, but you still check-raised him, so how sorry can you be? If you're going to say 'sorry' before the hand is over, just donk the river and apologize, don't check-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

We all know the c/r is part of the game. We do it, we get it done to us. Leave it at that.

Re: I say I\'m sorry as I check-raise
 

Yeah I agree no need to appologize for good play. There isn't anything wrong about check raising. That would be like appologizing for bluffing. Now if, say, you made a big bet out of position and then he folds in front of you and then you limp behind him, then I'de say sorry.

Re: I say I\'m sorry as I check-raise
 

My experience here is great. When I play I just try to have class winning or losing. I agree you probably shouldn't have said anything. Some people will take things different ways.

I disagree with you when you say you are sorry. You yourself thought that the tens were clean outs and you wanted that pot like every other one you play.

I do think that no one wants to be shown pity by the guy who just check raised them on the river.

A couple of weeks ago this guy on my left a tourney stood up and proclaimed, "There is no God." I thought that was pretty funny, but guys like that can't be consoled when they lose.

Edit: Concerning apologizing in poker. Basically, you're never sorry when you win, its just a sympathy for the other guy. Bottom line, you play and you're on both sides enough that when you win a pot by hitting that beautiful river you have a certain sympathy for your opponent, particularly if you like him. I think I saw a broadcast where one guy said, "I'm sorry it was you but I'm glad it was me." I think sorry shouldn't be uttered but I still every now and then find myself saying it, even though I try not too. Its only natural for anyone with compassion.

Re: I say I\'m sorry as I check-raise
 

instead of sorry, you should have said. "pot odds."

Re: I say I\'m sorry as I check-raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, he wasn't happy. Perhaps I should have simply said nothing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't say anything. But if you feel compelled to say something (maybe to keep the game light or because it feels awkward to silently rake in a pot while some other guy is blabbing on about how mad he is), just say, "I got lucky." He'll probably respond with something like, "You bet your ass you did," and then he'll have his closure and you can both move on.

Props to the poster who recommended "pot odds."