Biiiiiiig Pot, Ed Miller scenario
 

I think this is an interesting hand. Don't assume that means that I won or lost the hand. Villians are all total donks, they all have stats around 60/20/1.5 ish. Comments on all streets appreciated.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, MP3 folds, CO calls.

River: (19 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, Hero calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 21 BB

Seems like I shouldn't fold in this huge pot for one big bet, so I didn't. Wrong? Right? How so, either way?

Re: Biiiiiiig Pot, Ed Miller scenario
 

Unless I'm on the most loose/passive table in history, I'm folding A2s preflop from MP1. Okay, or maybe if all three EPs limped to me.

I'd also 3-bet the flop when it comes back to me the last time. Holding the nut flush draw vs. 4 opponents, you have excellent equity even if the board is paired.

Good call on the river. SB only has to be holding an overpair, straight, or lesser flush 5% of the time for this to be correct; given your read, I'd say this is very likely to work out.

Re: Biiiiiiig Pot, Ed Miller scenario
 

SSHE recommends calling A2s from middle position on a tight table, doesn't it?

Re: Biiiiiiig Pot, Ed Miller scenario
 

Every thread I ever start ends up as a trivial debate on preflop play. Obviously, this isn't very interesting postflop, and requires no thought or special attention. Forget I even posted it. Have a nice day.

Re: Biiiiiiig Pot, Ed Miller scenario
 

[ QUOTE ]
Every thread I ever start ends up as a trivial debate on preflop play. Obviously, this isn't very interesting postflop, and requires no thought or special attention. Forget I even posted it. Have a nice day.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a mood swing [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Preflop is fine in my books if the table is loose. The rest is standard.

Re: Biiiiiiig Pot, Ed Miller scenario
 

[ QUOTE ]
SSHE recommends calling A2s from middle position on a tight table, doesn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

It does. I disagree with that advice. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

The OP is right, tho...the preflop debate is trivial, and it's the postflop play that deserves attention (and that he's more interested in hearing about).

Re: Biiiiiiig Pot, Ed Miller scenario
 

Preflop is standard, but you need to raise and reraise this flop for value. Yes, anyone with an 8 or a 5 has a full house draw, and someone could already have it, but boohoo. We stand to win well over our 20% share (5 players in when the action is to us), so we definitely need to pump this draw.

Re: Biiiiiiig Pot, Ed Miller scenario
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SSHE recommends calling A2s from middle position on a tight table, doesn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

It does. I disagree with that advice. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] Whoa. Shouldn't you be repenting and saying "Hail Ed"s (vs "Hail Mary"s) right now? lol

Re: Biiiiiiig Pot, Ed Miller scenario
 

It's an easy call as 67 is indistinguishable from hands that beat you in SB's line and I'd estimate it as 1 in 7 (essentially versus SB holding any 8) that he's got a 67.

Re: Biiiiiiig Pot, Ed Miller scenario
 

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is standard, but you need to raise and reraise this flop for value. Yes, anyone with an 8 or a 5 has a full house draw, and someone could already have it, but boohoo. We stand to win well over our 20% share (5 players in when the action is to us), so we definitely need to pump this draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is so huge already that I would raise right off the bat. One poster suggested call, three-betting, which I think is second best. However, if the player on the flop lead out with a pp, it would be real nice to get AX to fold behind us and pick up a couple outs. If they all cold call, cap, behind you, your nut flush draw is plenty of equity for that to be ok. In a big a pot, I think you have to be more aggressive in this spot on the flop. The attitude of "keeping your customers" is very often incorrect in this spot.

FWIW, I think it's a bad limp in MP1 unless the table is very loose passive or if all three limpers limped infront of me. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]