QJs coordinated board - too passive or ok?
 

First rotation - no reads

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (8 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

How aggressive should I have been here? It didn't feel like any hands that would beat me would be folding to a raise but it also felt pretty soft just calling along.
Hands that make you go "hmmmmmmm."

Re: QJs coordinated board - too passive or ok?
 

First off raise pre-flop. You can peel one on the flop, but I would fold the turn. You have 9 outs to improve but I'd probably give your hand around 6 because of the flush draw and the fact that you could be dominated or chop if you make the straight. The river is fine.

Re: QJs coordinated board - too passive or ok?
 

raise pf, fold the flop, fold the turn
the river is the only street that was played well.

Re: QJs coordinated board - too passive or ok?
 

*grunch*

The pot is small but I like just calling down until the third Q fell on the river and then I like the raise. I definitely think we are behind on the flop but with the draw to the nut str8 along with the pair of Q's I think it is worth calling.

Re: QJs coordinated board - too passive or ok?
 

i think you have to let this one go on the flop. you are up against 4 players and the board is very co-ordinated. Flush draws, straight draws, and two overcards. Your 10 outs (2Q, 4J, 4T) are most likely not clean...

You are getting 7:1, which means you have to find at least 7 clean outs (out of the 10) to justify the call

The pot is small, fold!

L

Re: QJs coordinated board - too passive or ok?
 

First off, I agree with folding the flop, given the tiny pot and dirty, dirty outs.

Having said that, why do we favour open-raising QJs from MP1? I consider QJs to be a fairly speculative hand, one with which I'd like to see the flop cheaply, and with more rather than fewer opponents. I suppose that its high card strength is okay, but do we win often enough with TP/MP/MK to justify the raise? Buying the button from MP1 is not too likely, especially in 0.10/0.20. What about JTs or QTs? Forgive me if I'm treading over familiar (or boring) ground, but I was surprised by this advice.

Re: QJs coordinated board - too passive or ok?
 

I don't know about .10/.20, but this is 7 handed. If there are already some limpers in the hand, then a limp is ok. But being the first one in, I open with QJs. It plays well multi way, so if everyone calls, no big deal, but if we can get a few folds, even better.

Re: QJs coordinated board - too passive or ok?
 

I personally like to limp QJs in this situation, due to a few factors(Feel free to debate).

1, We have no reads.
2, Players may cold call raise with AQs leaving us dominated(But they may raise if limped too).
3, We're MP1, I raise this closer to the button to buy it and even if we dont, we have decent position over most.

However, Your flop play is bad... You must fold.

Remember, You have BOTTOM PAIR and a GUTSHOT. Unfortunatly theres a FD out there so:

Gutshot = 3
Queen = 1(heart)
jack = Worthless IMO unless some callers fold.

We need atleast 10:1 and we're getting 6:1 with co to act behind us.

Let it go, move on buddy.

Re: QJs coordinated board - too passive or ok?
 

*grunch*

fold on the flop. You're drawing to only about 4 outs. Your 10 outs are discounted since the 10 of spades gives a flush and any other 10 might just result in a split. I'd value your 10 outs at 2. Your J outs are worth only 1 out at best since they can easily give someone a flush or a straight to beat you. Your Q outs are worth only 1 at best due to the two flush on board.

Getting 6:1 on the flop is not enough to draw to 4 outs. Not to mention you're already drawing near dead to 10J. Fold.

Re: QJs coordinated board - too passive or ok?
 

So do we have equity against a LP cold-caller or re-raiser, and maybe the BB? We might, but I'm guessing that it's a marginal edge. I agree that if I get a few cold-callers on board, then great, but I'm not that happy if I narrow the field considerably. I'm going to be missing my straight or flush draws most of the time, and if I don't catch a Q or J, my hand has little showdown value. And the jig is pretty much up if overcards hit.

I actually see this the other way around; that is, I'll raise if there are a lot of limpers already, for value, but I'd rather encourage limping by limping myself in EP.