A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
 

Looseish 10/20 game on pokerroom network. I'm sitting with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the button.


UTG limps and an MP raises. two cold calls to me and I call. sb and bb call. 7 to the flop for 2 bets.

Flop comes in 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked around to me and I check. Who bets this bottom pair and backdoor nut flush draw. I checked here and I think I should have bet. Maybe a bet buys a free card on the turn? Or do I take the free card now. I wasn't entirely sure what I was betting for in that spotso I just checked. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Turn 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

UTG bets and 3 calls. Next two fold and it's up to me and I raise. Is this is a clear value raise? I thought it was which is why I raised but I'm not quite sure.

I just wanted to know what other people would do on the flop and turn. Not that it matters but the river was a blank. It was checked around and UTG takes it down with Kc8c. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
 

I think that you got every street wrong except the river. Fold pf. Bet the flop. Just call the turn. Also, you should include reads on the players involved (PT stats or at least something).

Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
 

Preflop is close in my opinion.

Flop... no reason to bet. Too likely someone is going to CR Kx, so I hate a bet here. You really think that out of 6 people, a pair of 2's are the best hand? Give me a break.

Turn is great-- you're 2:1 to make the best hand, and getting like 4:1 on your calls so raise away.

River, well, sucks you didn't hit.

Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
 

preflop is not close, it is a clear fold even in an unraised pot. he makes a flush 5.4% of the time IF he sees the river. with it being raised it is even worse because he can easily be dominated. it has a neg ev unless the pot is multiway (many players, not 2, 3, or even 4 opponents).

Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
 

[ QUOTE ]
it is a clear fold even in an unraised pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's just absurd.

Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it is a clear fold even in an unraised pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's just absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Even if the blinds don't call, its still 4 way. Hero might make a flush on.y 5.4% of the time, but that is far from being the only way he can win. Not to mention with all these cold callers, the players are obviously horrible. And Hero is on the button. Thinking this is a fold is horrible beyond horrible, and stating that its clear is just insane.

lf

Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
 

Preflop: If your opponents are as bad as they appear, this is one of the easiest places ever to cold call. Just from this hand this game seems extremely passive, meaning you can draw for as much or as little as you like.

Flop: Assuming the above is true, a flop bet accomplishes nothing, as no better hand will fold. Ever. Nobody with 6 outs will fold. Ever. Nobody with 3 outs will fold. Ever. Check the flop, its not close.

Turn: I think this is the interesting street. While it appears you are getting the odds to raise for value, I wonder about something that has been discussed earlier. Other posters have indicated that you should take into account the likelyhood that others are calling with your outs in their hand (say a spade), and you shouldn't count all the "unseen" spades as an out. I'm not sure about this either way, as it goes against my very limited poker math knowledge. Hopefully somebody far smarter than me can shed light on the topic.

River:

Too bad you missed, but look on the bright side. You're clearly in a great game.

lf

Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
 

No reason to bet the flop. That turn card will have a very big effect on the value of your hand, and is more likely to make your hand nearly worthless than it is to help you. You are also very likely to get check-raised (or worse) and then you not only aren't getting a free river card, you are now overpaying to see the turn which you could have had for free.

Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
 

[ QUOTE ]
preflop is not close, it is a clear fold even in an unraised pot. he makes a flush 5.4% of the time IF he sees the river. with it being raised it is even worse because he can easily be dominated. it has a neg ev unless the pot is multiway (many players, not 2, 3, or even 4 opponents).

[/ QUOTE ]

How about seven players, Einstein?

Re: A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.
 

a series of posts that are incorrect. quite amazing. playing Axs here in a raised pot is a big loser. if you are all playing those hands, you are giving away $. in addition to the 5.4% number, he is 28 to 1 to flop 2 pair or better. this is a clear fold and bad advice in most of these posts.