confused about KK hand
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) converter

UTG (t1680)
UTG+1 (t1510)
MP1 (t1320)
MP2 (t1400)
MP3 (t1530)
CO (t1470)
Button (t1550)
SB (t1540)
Hero (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls t20, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t80</font>, MP1 calls t60, MP3 calls t60.

Flop: (t250) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (t250) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t60</font>, MP1 calls t60, MP3 calls t60.

River: (t430) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t140</font>, MP1 calls t140, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: t710

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Kd Ks (one pair, kings).
MP1 has 9c As (one pair, aces).
Outcome: MP1 wins t710. </font>

Maybe I should have raised to 100 preflop but i'm not convinced the caller would have folded his A9 if he called my raise to 80. with two others in the pot do you recommend check/folding this...I would have folded to a flop bet but it got checked around...should I have checked the turn?
ne ideas?
-Mario

Re: confused about KK hand
 

same thing happened to me last nite.

flop checked around. I made a half pot sized bet on the turn (i think 60 here is way to low) and got one caller.

check check river and my kk held up....I wouldn't bet this river, if you do it has to be pot size imo. if i have a9 i'm most likely calling both of these bets (not the pf raise though). Against 2 players i assume one has an ace, betting 140 is almost giving away chips, better to check or bet bigger (pot size)

Re: confused about KK hand
 

I play this very differently.

Preflop - minor mistake. raise a little more. Often, 4xBB suffices but you want to chase out weak aces and have to adjust accordingly given the couple of limpers ahead of you.

The flop - no mistake there. you are OOP with a very bad flop. A probe bet is too dangerous with 2 opponents. I check and fold if bet at.

The turn - biggest mistake. Your bet was WAY too small. The info you got on the flop tells you you likely have the best hand here (even a weak ace should have bet half the pot on the flop). And now there is a flush draw. Make a pot-sized bet to give clubbies incorrect odds.

River - second biggest mistake. now you have a medium-weak hand given the board. An ace (even though they made like they didn't have one) and now the flush draw hit. A bet makes no sense. Anyone who can't beat your kings is folding and anyone who can is calling or raising. Check and hope it's checked down.

Re: confused about KK hand
 

Raise to t120 preflop. Half pot the flop. If you get action, stop, if you don't, well that means you've won the hand. Congrats. Once it's checked around the flop, bet half poton turn. Once you get called on the turn check fold the river.

Re: confused about KK hand
 

thats a tough situation. I would have probably have raised to 100 and even if he does call and hit the ace, take comfort in knowing you're charging him more with his weak hand. As for the flop bet, I hate making a strong raise preflop and checking the flop. But this is one of this situations I might check. If you going to lead at the turn, I'd bet more, somewhere in the neighborhood of 90 or 100. The smallish bet of 60 just appears weak to me. I also don't like the 140 bet on the river. You're only going to get called by a better hand. Another strategy might be leading out on the flop and then shutting down when he calls you. It's more easy to put him on an ace that way. You're check on the flop and bet on the turn might look suspect to your opponents and encourage them to stick around with hands you may or may not be able to beat, and you'll be stuck playing the guessing game, something that's never fun in no limit.

Re: confused about KK hand
 

Before you bet, know why you are betting. And when you get to that point explain to us all why you are betting the way you are in this hand.

-Jason

Re: confused about KK hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Before you bet, know why you are betting. And when you get to that point explain to us all why you are betting the way you are in this hand.

-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he value bet the turn and blocking bet the river (not saying I agree, that's just my guess at his reasoning).

Re: confused about KK hand
 

The biggest problem is the river bet IMHO. I think you either have to check/fold or make a big bluff.

Re: confused about KK hand
 

the problem with some of this is that all of you are more experienced than i am but im more used to playing the $5 + .50's. A lot of players at this level will check/call for all their chips with top pair regardless of kicker. and a lot of players will call a pf raise with something like KJ and then check call as well. In that sense I was value betting the turn because I was hoping to get raised by an A or called by a J. The weak play by A9 (although he shouldnt have called my pf raise, i should have made it bigger nonetheless) makes it difficult to read him for an A because he didnt bet out on the flop or raise the turn/river. Any advice playing against people who play like that?

Re: confused about KK hand
 

Its better to 3/4-pot bet the flop and give up if u get called instead of pussyfooting around with little wuss bets trying to squeeze value out of a jack (I assume?).

-Jason