A nice twist
 

40-80. 3 crappy limpers from EP, EMP and MP to a good player on the button who raises. Fairly broad range of hands, but nothing dumb. I call in the SB with KdQh, BB calls. 6 to the flop for 6BBs.

Flop: Kh 9s 8s. Checked to button who bets, I checkraise, BB, EP and EMP coldcall, MP folds, button calls. 5 to the turn for 11BBs.

Turn: Ad. I bet, BB folds, EP calls, EMP calls, button raises, my turn.

Re: A nice twist
 

fold. what else?

Re: A nice twist
 

I'd have folded pre-flop.

I would have checked and folded the turn. Your hand can't be good at this point. Furthermore, 2 of your potential outs are spades, and therefore suspect.

TSP

Re: A nice twist
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd have folded pre-flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

No can do in this spot. He's raising in that spot with lots of hands that are dominated by KQ. Plus I get the ole discount to call. On the button I'd consider 3-betting.

Re: A nice twist
 

I'm not following you. What hands could a good player raise 3 (albeit sub-par) limpers with that KQo dominates? I love playing it the way you did when he doesnt raise pre-flop, but he did. I just think he is so much more likely to have AJs, AK, AQ, ATs, 77-AA, etc., as opposed to a hand you dominate like QJ, KT, KJ, K9, TJ, etc.

TSP

Re: A nice twist
 

How could anyone consider folding preflop here?

This situaiton would be a lot more interseting heads up against the good player I think.

I think it's a fold not because of the good player but because of the crappy ones. First, aces are just hte kind of hand crappy players like to limp with. You are definietly Ax of spades now, and both crappy playesr called you on the A turn with the preflop raiser still yet to act. Even though one of them has a flush draw, what can we put the other one on that we are beating?

Also, we only have to figure out if the limpers beat the tiems the button doesn't. He could have hit his 3 outer, or he could have had us over a barrel the whole time.

If either the button, or BOTH the limpers turned over hands we beat, I think it swings to a call. Between the potential hands for all 3 players I think it's a fold.

Re: A nice twist
 

[ QUOTE ]
as opposed to a hand you dominate like QJ, KT, KJ, K9, TJ, etc.

TSP

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Suited, he'd raise all these hands.

I'm really only concerned about AA-QQ, AK and AQ. That's it. That's a small subset of his range here, I have the SB so it costs less to see the flop, and I get a chance to play against 3 live ones. And generally, I try not to play like a donkey postflop so I don't think I'm going to get into too much trouble. Sorta. Usually.

Re: A nice twist
 

Hi Clarkmeister,

The preflop call seems close but ok to me, owing to your discount in the SB as you point out.

On the turn, you're getting huge odds to continue, so even if you know you're up against an ace and a spade draw, you still have to at least call. It looks very unlikely that it will be raised behind you, so my count you're getting about 18:1 to call. Easy easy call.

Should you 3-bet? I don't think so. It looks too likely that you are behind, and I don't think you can take this down unimproved with a 3-bet. Bad players aren't folding AQ here, so you can't clean up any outs. Just call the turn and hope to improve.

Good luck.
Eric

Re: A nice twist
 

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, you're getting huge odds to continue, so even if you know you're up against an ace and a spade draw, you still have to at least call. It looks very unlikely that it will be raised behind you, so my count you're getting about 18:1 to call. Easy easy call.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the chance that I'm drawing dead? The PFR raising all those players is a pretty strong move, one that screams "slowplay" more than "I made an ace", no?

Re: A nice twist
 

Eric, I advocated checking the turn from Clark's spot, in light of A. Yours is an opinion I respect greatly. What would you do?

TSP