Party 3/6 6 max: Against a TAG
 

A buddy of mine and I were debating this play earlier. Assume UTG and Button are both solid tight aggressive players. They play equally well as each other both pre and post flop. The SB in this hand was a very losse passive player and the BB was another TAG.

Party Poker 3/6 6max 5 handed.

Preflop: Button has 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG raises, CO folds, Button...

What is your immediate action and what is your plan for the rest of the hand?

Re: Party 3/6 6 max: Against a TAG
 

Fold, and then I pay attention to how the rest of the hand goes. I don't like 3 betting sixes, and I hate cold calling with them.

Re: Party 3/6 6 max: Against a TAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
A buddy of mine and I were debating this play earlier. Assume UTG and Button are both solid tight aggressive players. They play equally well as each other both pre and post flop. The SB in this hand was a very losse passive player and the BB was another TAG.

Party Poker 3/6 6max 5 handed.

Preflop: Button has 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG raises, CO folds, Button...

What is your immediate action and what is your plan for the rest of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

fold,wait to play a donkey.

Re: Party 3/6 6 max: Against a TAG
 

Two votes for a fold so far. What range of hands are you putting UTG on here?

Re: Party 3/6 6 max: Against a TAG
 

Hands you are either coinflips or much worse preflop.

Re: Party 3/6 6 max: Against a TAG
 

small dog or big favourite. best case scenario he has two over cards, you have very little idea which (im basing this on my own UTG range), very possible you have an underpair.

you are going to be a big dog enough of the time that the times you are a marginal favourite wont compensate, given that he plays as well as you do post flop.

Re: Party 3/6 6 max: Against a TAG
 

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Hands you are either coinflips or much worse preflop.

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I am certainly at best a coin flip favorite here, but I am favorite the majority of the time yes? His likely raising range is at least down to KTo and likely lower.

Also if he caps out of position when it comes back to him then it's very easy to narrow his range of hands down to AA-TT and AK. At that point I know to just play for 6 or let it go. However if he just calls the 3 bet it is highly likely I am playing against a hand I am favorite against and even if not I can possibly get him to lay down a hand like 99 or 88 with a painted flop.

Re: Party 3/6 6 max: Against a TAG
 

Even if you are a "favorite", which in reality is a coinflip situation with overcards in say 2/3rds of the hands this TAG might play, your edge is very small in even these situations (even assuming you can get heads up). The other 1/3 of the time you are a huge dog. So you are putting in 3 bets (at least) to try and get heads up with a coinflip situation, where given the TAG nature of your villan, this will probably make for a not so fun hand to play out when overcards come. If it gets capped you are in trouble.

Now if the blinds are the type of players that will cold call raises then this only makes it that much worse for you. If one or two of those players call, things are getting very bad for you. If these players are going to see a turn or river with an overcard or call down any piece of the board you again are not looking good.

I think this play should be saved for a poor player with tight blinds. You are pushing a very small edge which is not going to win you more in the long run to make up for the 1/3 of the time you are a huge dog and the other times when your villan hits is overcards, not to mention the blinds hitting if they play along.

Re: Party 3/6 6 max: Against a TAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hands you are either coinflips or much worse preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am certainly at best a coin flip favorite here, but I am favorite the majority of the time yes? His likely raising range is at least down to KTo and likely lower.

Also if he caps out of position when it comes back to him then it's very easy to narrow his range of hands down to AA-TT and AK. At that point I know to just play for 6 or let it go. However if he just calls the 3 bet it is highly likely I am playing against a hand I am favorite against and even if not I can possibly get him to lay down a hand like 99 or 88 with a painted flop.

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You're about 52/48 against two overcards. You're 3-betting preflop, 99 and 88 are not going to fold often enough to make it worthwhile, and any painted flop is going to be dangerous to you moreso than it is to them. You've got a huge problem playing mid pairs and it's likely you're forced into often folding the best hand because a good TAG can checkraise the flop with a lot more than just a pair. Even when you are the favorite, you're barely so.

Also, if he caps preflop you just spent 4SB on a 7.5:1 shot getting a bit better than 1:1, aside from the times he has AK.

Re: Party 3/6 6 max: Against a TAG
 

while you may be a favorite against most of his range, you really won't be getting that many good flops. Any broadway that hits is gonna present major problems. Now, this may be true for hands like 77, 88, and 99, but 66 is on the weak side of things for me.

The benefit of the hands that I mentioned is that when someone raises with Amidxs PF and K9s+ that you will have them dominated most of the time in one way.

The biggest problem that you face here with 66 is the fact that you are gonna be up against a solid player who is opening utg. THeir holding is obviously gonna normally be strong and our holding isn't gonna be strong enough to generally fold out a better hand. We have some showdown value, but, for me, its not strong enough for me to want to three bet a utg raise from a TAG. I just fold it and not worry about it. If you want to three bet 66 here, then why not three bet 22-55 also