OK let\'s try the value of X Y Z
 

The game is 1/2 stud with .25 ante .5 bring-in

The game is 8 handed, loose but not aggressive, a lot of calling stations, if some one makes a flush/straight they usually don't raise until its made. Not even a raise on 4 card draw. Two pair wins seem common maybe it is my perception.

So given that all of the above and you are sitting at a table. You have XY Z (high cards or low cards)

what value would you put in a hand if you see none of your X Y or Z out?

What about no X Y Z out on fourth street?

Also can someone tell me the odds of improving to two pair when all three of your starters are live.


Disclaimer -- I am posting this to start a discussion. I have read Ray Zee and other people who say dont stary with a high pair or better. I am just wondering if anyone would lower their standards in a calling station type game, that it is easy to read your opponent.

Re: OK let\'s try the value of X Y Z
 

your question is tough to answer, but i would suggest that you read othmer's book which has some good info on chances of improving. in general hands like this with three different cards shoudl be played sparingly in a loose game even with calling stations. but one situation to play is if you have very high cards, such as AK9 and can call for just the bring in. if you catch an A or K then you play on and if not you fold unless circumstances dictate otherwise. in a tight game you should play hands like these with the hope that you can steal the antes or take the pot on fourth and play accordingly. this is very general advice.

Pat

Re: OK let\'s try the value of X Y Z
 

If X Y Z makes three to a broadway str8, and none of your pair cards are out, it might be worth a call in a loose game, if it's not raised of course. If it's rainbow, it's not worth as much of course as if it's suited, or if it has at least a two flush. Generally, you shouldn't be LOOKING for a reason to play what's a very marginal hand unless you have some good reason to do so, i.e. you think you have enough of an edge to make the hand +EV. I've been playing stud for a long time, and I generally toss this hand, if that tells you anything. Sometimes I might play it, depending on the situation, and I'll certainly go for an ante steal with it. It also might be a raising hand if played in a tourney, if the circumstances were right.

al