Flush Over Flush
 

Hi all. This is my first post. I've been browsing the forums for a while and love the discussions and constructive atmosphere.

Let me have it -- I have a thick skin and want to learn.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls.

River: (11 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

My bet on the river seems to be a mistake. What else did I do wrong? Should I have capped the flop?

Re: Flush Over Flush
 

I don't see anything wrong with the way you played this hand. If you lost to an A-high flush, oh well -- it'll happen sometime. You'll win this one FAR more often than you lose it.

Rob

Re: Flush Over Flush
 

I like your play up until the river, where I would have quickly 3-bet. You definitely gave MP2 too much credit here, since there is only one hand beating you.

Haupt_234

Re: Flush Over Flush
 

Flop: I would've just called the initial bet because I want to entice more people to join in. If your raise folds out everyone (and after MP2 3-bets, everyone else did) you lost value. A lot of players will pay 1 to see another card.

River: Gotta 3-bet. I'm not giving him credit for the A-high flush until he shows it.

Re: Flush Over Flush
 

Hi
Don't worry about it.

I would:
Raise the flop (as you did) - people call 2 all the time at party. MP2 3-bet, in retrospect he shouldn't have done that since he shut people out of his flush draw...but your raise was good, I think.
Bet the turn - people often check around when the scary 3rd flush card falls.
Bet and 3-bet the river. You win this hand so many more times than you lose.
-t

Re: Flush Over Flush
 

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. It's clear I need to be less timid.

Incidentally, how common is flush over flush? Is it about as common as set over set?

What if my flush was smaller, say 9-high? Should I have bailed in that case, or should I still go to the river?

I'm a little unclear on how to play small flushes.

Re: Flush Over Flush
 

I think the answer is, as usual, it depends.

With a king high flush I think it is safe to say you won't lose money if you never worry about the ace high flush being out there. Flush over flush is rare, and even when the board 4-flushes it is uncommon, it just sticks in your memory because you lost to a higher flush and it sucks.

not sure about set over set...
-t

Re: Flush Over Flush
 

I believe this is correct for 2 flushes on the same board, assuming only 3 of a suit on the board.

C(8,2)/C(45,2) = 2.83%, or about 1/35
(8 spades left, C(8,2) gets the number of 2 card combinations possible, 45 unknown cards left, C(45,2) gets the total possibility of hole cards your opponent has.)

I'm not sure if this needs to be multiplied by 2 to negate that we're not worried about the order of the cards, though. :\

(I'm trying to learn these C(x,y) functions. :P )

-d

Re: Flush Over Flush
 

I reraise the river without a second though. Your K-flush will only rarely lose to an Ace-flush.