2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

These two hands happened in less than 10 minutes. In the first, the guy is nearly all-in and a bit too loose and passive.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button calls $3 (All-In).

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

As you can see, he was all in on the end, and the river made me crazy or something. Is this a fold on the turn? If not, I should just call the river, right?




In the 2nd, no specific reads and not enough hands to trust the stats, but the winner is 40/6 with an AF of 3 and the other villain only had $4 left when he folds.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Hero folds...

Here, I'm basically looking at this as an overcall situation. UTG bets out of nowhere, and then the guy raises.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

I'm not folding that turn in hand 1, I just picked up outs. Maybe call the river raise.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not folding that turn in hand 1, I just picked up outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

outs?

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not folding that turn in hand 1, I just picked up outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

outs?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's saying that if the button is betting a diamond flush, the turn gives you outs to a FH.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

Against a flopped flush, set, 2 pr, whatever you think he has that's beating you on the turn. If hes got a K, well it happens. And there's still the chance that you've got him beat and he's donking off his stack.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

The raise on the flop had me leaning toward a K in his hand.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

[ QUOTE ]
The raise on the flop had me leaning toward a K in his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? That's a pretty narrow group of holdings. If you think you are way behind, and are playing the hand that way, why not C/C down? You lead the river with the 2nd nuts and got raised. If your read is that he's got a K, why call the river raise, nevermind the 3 bet/cap scenario?

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

Obviously, the river changed my mind slightly. I kind of started thinking more of value raises...I may be behind, but likely I'm not. Is that really bad thinking?

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

No, I don't think so. I think you played it fine. And you have to be able to re-evaluate your hand strength as the hand progresses.

Honestly I didn't review your hand street by street, I looked at the whole thing then started thinking. That's not a fair analysis, and I apologize for that. I think there is a difference in looking at it as a whole in a vacuum, and correlating that to how the hand plays at live-speed. I'd probably have capped the river as well.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

Grunch
Hand 1
I fold the turn against a passive player. Even if he is loose, a true passive player is probably on the flush if he raises you you on the flop. Kings are certainly possible, but those diamonds make me ill, and when the second king comes up, I know I'm beat. - (edit: if I make it to the river, no way I'm folding the FH against potential quads, when I think he has the flush but I probably would have folded earlier, then kicked myself in the nuts, then gone on tilt and donked off my whole stack)

Hand 2 - I play it exactly like that but I call the river. One of them probably has a 7, but they didn't bet top pair on the flop or turn. 2 pair is a strong possibility, but you have them beat. No flush and a highly unlikely straight. Gotta call the river.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

Grunch.

Hand 1.

I only call the river raise. If he has the flush, we win, if he has the K, we lose. But I'm definitely betting out and calling a raise. I wouldn't want it to get checked through if he has the flush, or just the Ace of diamonds.

I'm definitely not laying it down on the turn. You have outs to the full house now, and you still may be best. I'm just calling down UI.

Hand 2.

I think nh.

The UTG could just be betting the scare card. So I'd most likely be just calling, or over-calling. The raise though, it'd be pretty brash to play it that passively then RAISE on the end to a donkbet without the 7, or a full-house set of 2's 4's or 6's.

I could overcall this donkbet, but I don't think I can call 2 with UTG to act behind still. And I'm definitely not 3-betting two guys that showed NO initiative the entire hand until the river.

nh.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

I think you have the best lines here. I don't fear the flush that much (probably not enough), but I really felt that he had the K. I should've just called his raise.

The part that really irked me in the 2nd hand is the raiser was the looser more agressive player, and after I folded, the bettor folded too, so I didn't even see it. I was probably behind, but it just sucked. I think your idea about the full house seems likely.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

So UTG in hand 2 was just betting the scare card eh? What a prick.

If he'd have just checked like a good little donkey, MP1 could bet into you, then you call and show down.

I've seen that a lot and it just sucks. I'd like to make a note on either of the guys, and UTG "folding to any raise" just kills that.

If I was playing the hand, and somehow "would have known" UTG would fold to any raise, I definitely would have cold-called 2, not only because I might be best, but also for the information. But we can never know what some donkey is actually going to do.

I think the fold in that position probably saved you 2 BB's personally.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

[ QUOTE ]
The raise on the flop had me leaning toward a K in his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why didn't you RR? RR on the flop or betting out on the turn would have given you a much better idea of what he was holding. Your check on the turn could induce a bet from any holding.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

hand 1 = nh

hand 2 = nh

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

[ QUOTE ]
Then why didn't you RR? RR on the flop or betting out on the turn would have given you a much better idea of what he was holding. Your check on the turn could induce a bet from any holding.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I agree that 3-betting the flop would've revealed a bit more, but I think betting the turn is wrong. He either raises me again, or he goes into call down mode. I'm not getting him to fold better hand.

My thinking on each street as the hand played out:

pf: duh

flop: I bet, he raises. Hmm, he could have a flush, but he probably just has the K. I'll wait for a clean turn and then raise him again.

turn: Crap. &lt;something like&gt;Well, let's just see showdown cuz we are heads up.&lt;/something&gt;

river: Cool, now he most likely doesn't have it. If not I win, and he's pretty much all in, let's push our edge.

WHAT DOES \"GRUNCH\" MEAN?!?!?!?!
 

WHAT DOES "GRUNCH" MEAN?!?!?!?!

sorry, but i'd really like to know.

Re: WHAT DOES \"GRUNCH\" MEAN?!?!?!?!
 

A great man named GrunchCan once said that you should post in 3 threads per day without reading the other responses first. Hence, Grunching is replying blind.

He has since changed his name and moved to NL. We miss you Grunch.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

Hand 1
The flop just could not be much worse for such a nice hand. Villian is agressive.
The turn, just keeps getting worse for hero, hero freezes and villian turns up the heat again. I think you are beat here or he made his flush on the flop and has begun to fall in love with it.
The river, I check call.&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;did he have the K?

hand 2, I bet I could have lost a lot with that one.

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

I had a very similar hand to the first one, but with KK. 3 way after raising preflop on button, and the flop was J8x with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (x being random undercard). 2 checks, I bet, 2 calls. Turn comes 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2 checks, I had the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], so a ton of redraws if behind to a naked 8, so bet, and got 2 calls. River was the (unfortunately case) 8, 2 checks, I bet, 1 fold, 1 reraise, so I puke/call, and then puke again. I cant remember any reads (this was about a week ago, and I'm at work), but I can still kind of taste the bile...

Re: 2 AA hands that made me feel like ****
 

[ QUOTE ]
&gt;&gt;&gt;did he have the K?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I don't recall his kicker.