WOW QJs Hand
 

Playing a crazy session right now. Everyone at the table is LP-P or sLP-P.

I very rarely get emotional about playing a hand, but this one really got me going.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: SuperHero is UTG+2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, SuperHero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(8 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">SuperHero raises</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (9.20 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">SuperHero bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SuperHero caps</font>, MP2 calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (25.20 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SuperHero raises</font>, MP2 calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 33.20 BB

How did I do here?

Brad

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

The whole thing kicks ass dude.

Rob

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

you get a gold star

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Holy [censored] I wish someone was watching me get my ass kicked right now.

So many bad beats...

Brad

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Poker is fun sometimes, isn't it?

Nice hand.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

you won this, right?

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Nope [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Poker is a bitch sometimes, isn't it?

Heh.

Nice hand though.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Some dude just limp reraised me with 52o. I had QQ. Every street was capped until the river where he was all in. He hit trip 5's on the river and won a huge pot...

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

OK, I had to put some thought into the flop raise on this one. I think I like it but I want to be sure im getting this right. Youre behind at this point, but any Q, J or 10 will almost certainly give you the best hand. Futhermore, any club gives you a a backdoor draw to the likely high flush. You have an excellent chance to get a better hand than yours to fold on this flop. You might buy yourself a free turn card if you fail to improve. All this equals a routine raise.

I think this is probably a raise I need to be making more often, am I missing anything in my analysis?

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Some dude just limp reraised me with 52o. I had QQ. Every street was capped until the river where he was all in. He hit trip 5's on the river and won a huge pot...

[/ QUOTE ]

This made me feel marginally better about every bad beat I've suffered this week. Way to take one for the team!

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

With a gut-shot, two-overs and a backdoor flush draw his hand is stronger than it might seem. The pot's big, so raising the flop is the right play because it can potentially clean up those over-card outs, and maybe fold a hand like A8, etc.

If the flop raise gets KJ to fold, and we river a Jack to win the pot, we party hardy.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
potentially clean up those over-card outs

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks cold, I knew I was forgetting something.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Beautiful. I like every street.

-Jaran

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nope [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Some dude just limp reraised me with 52o. I had QQ. Every street was capped until the river where he was all in. He hit trip 5's on the river and won a huge pot...

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you wrote his name down.

You luv tha fishas [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

They keep losing their buyin. And coming back again, and again, and again.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Correct again sir.

Brad

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Well he didn't play it that badly then. The preflop call in a loose passive game is fine imo.

He didn't know you had the higher straight and he was one-card open ended on the flop with an overcard and BD flush draw.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
The preflop call in a loose passive game is fine imo.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not in UTG+1.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Other callers had 88 for a set and 7x for the turned straight.

I hope you see why my hand is so strong on the flop. A Ten gives anyone holding a seven a straight, but it gives me the nuts.

Brad

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

With 8 people seeing the flop(assuming this is average), you won't limp K7s UTG+1?

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Next time you should river the 9 instead of the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Geez, dude, you really need this play.

-Jaran

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Yeah but you're going to lose the hand half the time on the river, right?

When you're up against a turned flush draw and a set?

Lotta cards you don't wanna see come out.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
With 8 people seeing the flop(assuming this is average)

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

bit of a stretch to assume that 8 people are seeing the flop on average isnt it?

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
With 8 people seeing the flop(assuming this is average), you won't limp K7s UTG+1?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. K9s is my minimum, and I feel dirty doing that (K9s is the minimum recommended in SSH, FWIW).

Rob

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Yo Entity,

I will limp K9s at optimal tables.

In that 88 hand you posted in SS, you really need to call the raise and re-raise.

Brad

On track to getting trashed tonite. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

I'll limp 75 sooted UTG if I know it won't get raised and it will be 10-way.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll limp 75 sooted UTG if I know it won't get raised and it will be 10-way.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't yet understand that the most important aspect of hold'em is position, do you?

Rob

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yo Entity,

I will limp K9s at optimal tables.

In that 88 hand you posted in SS, you really need to call the raise and re-raise.

Brad

On track to getting trashed tonite. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, I swear to god AC Slater is driving me nuts.

Anyway, you see how the hand turned out? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Rob

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Hack,

I don't mean to be a dick but have you played the .5/1 Party tables?

Brad

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

It was a joke, dude. I thought that was obvious.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

I've played the Stars .5/1 before. I hear they're harder.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

yeah, that was my guess, too.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
Yo Entity,

I will limp K9s at optimal tables.

In that 88 hand you posted in SS, you really need to call the raise and re-raise.

Brad

On track to getting trashed tonite. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, I swear to god AC Slater is driving me nuts.

Anyway, you see how the hand turned out? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Nuts is an understatement, that guy has a serious problem.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

I don't understand why you were raising the flop. You have a gut shot (4 outs), two overcards, albiet weak, in a large field (I think they are only worth 1 out total) and a back door flush draw (two card/non nuts so 1 out) It looks like you have about 6 outs. You are not looking to fold players out, you want callers so when you hit you can make more money so raising the flop and making so many players face two is a mistake IMHO. The turn and the river are great, nice hand.

Vern

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

Ok, I read the replies, but I still am uncomfortable with the flop raise. I think in this large of a field you are more than likely reverse dominated on one or both so often the overcards aren't worth much. I want a lot of players there to pay me off when I turn a ten or river my flush, I don't want to drive out those donors on the the flop. If there were more callers between me and the original bettor, fine, trap them in, but I don't think the flop raise is as good as everyone thinks it is. That generally means I have something to learn [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Vern

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

I think if he's reverse dominated raising the flop is even more important.

How would you feel about calling 2-bets on this flop w/ Q8, knowing that you might have to put in even more?

Granted, a lot of times the guy w/ Q8 isn't going to fold (though sometimes he will), but that's not the point. The point is to do everything you can to increase your chances of winning what is going to be a honker of a pot.

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

I agree it is to do what is necessary to increase odds to win the pot, but right now our hero has no hand, just one strong draw and two weak draws. I don't think raising to eliminate opponents is that good here on a draw heavy board. I just don't think a raise is cleaning up my outs as much as it is paying the guy with the best hand/draw. I am not getting enough of each bet to make it a value bet to pump the pot here due to the likelihood I knock out weak draws that I don't really fear anyway. I guess I need to do some more thinking on playing the combo of draws here.

Vern

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

You are missing the amount of extra implied odds I have on this hand. I have good enough odds to just call with this hand, and since the pot is big and multiway (and I might be able to win with a pair of queens or jacks) I should raise here. If I can hit a 10, it gives anyone with a 7 a sucker straight. This is worth a ton if implied odds IMO.

Brad

Re: WOW QJs Hand
 

I am not arguing, I am trying to understand. Still not there yet. That doesn't mean you are wrong, just I am not there yet. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Vern