He called me a fish
 

Yes, I got called a fish, which I undoubtedly am, but they usually don't notice.

I thought this was all standard stuff. Anyone think different?

Villain is a TAG of the weak variety, but not so weak he won't semibluff.

Party $5/10. I have A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and open raise. The BB defends and we take the flop heads up.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

He check-raises my autobet and I call getting 7-1.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

He bets. I call getting 5-1.

The rest is easy: I hit the 9 and manage to put a few bets in on the river before getting called a fish.

So did I do anything fishy or not?

Guy.

Re: He called me a fish
 

Looks good to me. Did you get villain to do more than bet-call the river?

You know that most people who call other players fish aren't particularly good.

Re: He called me a fish
 

Standard, sometimes I 3-bet the flop if the c/r can be a draw

Re: He called me a fish
 

The turn is close depending on villain.

Re: He called me a fish
 

Folding in this hand before the river would have been quite bad.

I would three-bet the flop here a goodly percentage of the time.

Re: He called me a fish
 

[ QUOTE ]
The turn is close depending on villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] What range of hands do you put him on?

I have a very hard time coming up with a range that gives us less than 1/3 pot equity. My guess is that against the average TAG we have about 40% pot equity here. I don't think the turn call is close at all.

Re: He called me a fish
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The turn is close depending on villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] What range of hands do you put him on?

I have a very hard time coming up with a range that gives us less than 1/3 pot equity. My guess is that against the average TAG we have about 40% pot equity here. I don't think the turn call is close at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is a TAG of the weak variety, but not so weak he won't semibluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

So I'm curious what your range is.

Re: He called me a fish
 

Yeah, 40% seems way too high to me.

Re: He called me a fish
 

[ QUOTE ]
So I'm curious what your range is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not taking into account diamond draws, this is my range (of course including diamond draws we would have even more equity than this):

66+, A9s-A6s, KTs-K6s, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, ATo-A6o, KTo-K7o, QTo-Q8o, J8o+, T9o

And against that range I have us at 42.9% equity. I don't see why this is such a stretch?

I certainly can't see any range for the TAG that makes the turn call "close." Even if he is weak.

Re: He called me a fish
 

Are you planning on showing down UI though? Because if he's betting a large percentage of this range on the river, the fact that we're ahead of king high or something is not very relevant if you're folding to a river bet.

FWIW, obviously he's not betting these hands every time, or maybe even close to everytime, on the river (does he have KTs here though??). I think once you factor in this turn call as a "free-showdown call" some portion of the time you can definitely make it. My point was just that your actual equity here is misleading.

Re: He called me a fish
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you planning on showing down UI though? Because if he's betting a large percentage of this range on the river, the fact that we're ahead of king high or something is not very relevant if you're folding to a river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

We will improve on a ton of rivers, and I do plan to call the river bet on some rivers that don't improve us. If the board makes a straight with a 5 then I plan to call. If a blank comes off that's not a diamond I plan to call. If I don't think he will fire that last barrel with a worse hand I can see folding, but really unless a diamond comes off I like seeing a showdown here agaisnt an aggressive player. The board is simply too ripe for semibluffing, and there are a million worse hands an aggro player would push hard that AT is ahead of.

Calling might be right on a diamond as well, I'm not sure.

My idea of "a weak TAG" may be a lot different than other people's, though. Some of the TAGs I play with are pretty weak IMO, but they definitely wouldn't have any trouble checkraising this flop with all of the hands I listed above, and following through with their semi-bluff all the way to the river. Depending on what they have, it makes sense to as I will be hardpressed to call a river bet with a queenhigh or kinghigh hand which I will often hold.

Re: He called me a fish
 

[ QUOTE ]
(does he have KTs here though??)

[/ QUOTE ]
Why not [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
He defended his blind with KTs, yeah he could have threebet but just calling preflop makes sense too. He flops a strong draw and checkraises it and leads the turn with it. I don't see why this is unusual?

Maybe the type of TAG exists that will do this kind of semibluff but always give up on the river. But I think aggressive players will frequently follow through on the river, and they will be getting pretty good pot odds to do so.

It would also be helpful to know what position the OP openraised from. If he raised from the button I imagine the TAG's range is going to be a lot wider than if he raised UTG.

Re: He called me a fish
 

You said you weren't taking into account diamond draws.

Re: He called me a fish
 

[ QUOTE ]
You said you weren't taking into account diamond draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I didn't for the (admittedly rough) range I posted, because I don't think you can do exactly that with pokerstove. But I do think it makes sense to consider the diamond draw possibility when deciding whether or not to call a bet with ace high after various river cards.

Re: He called me a fish
 

I disagree with a good amount of your range.

Here is my quick pokerstove, I included some small inconsistencies to weight:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 63.8068 % [ 00.60 00.04 ] { JJ-44, ATs-A5s, KQs, KTs-K5s, QTs-Q6s, JTs-J7s, T9s-T7s, 98s-97s, 87s-86s, 76s, A9o-A5o, K9o-K7o, Q9o-Q7o, JTo-J8o, T9o-T8o, 98o, 87o }
Hand 2: 36.1932 % [ 00.33 00.04 ] { AcTd }

Re: He called me a fish
 

[ QUOTE ]


Villain is a TAG of the weak variety, but not so weak he won't semibluff.



[/ QUOTE ]

So what's so weak about him then? Also, what position were you opening from?