am i cheating?
 

usually when im sitting in a seat in front of the dealer, i watch him and notice the bottom card(s) when he picks up and organizes the deck after the wash and before he starts his shuffle (theres not much else to do). last night i noticed a particular dealer that when he shuffled, the bottom card usually stayed on the bottom during the shuffle process (3 shuffles) and i could follow it toward the center of the deck after the cut. there were 3 or 4 occasions where this bottom card appeared on the board during that hand (holdem).
i realize this dealer has a flawed technique, but am i cheating or simply taking advantage? if i had a better talent for estimating the number of cards in the cut, i would have an even bigger advantage.
i also realize if anybody else knew i had a better than normal chance to know if a card was coming, theyd be mighty upset.

Re: am i cheating?
 

Being keen to noticing things is an imparative part of being a successful seasoned player. In this case (IMO) it would only be cheating if you and the dealer were in cahoots.

KC

Re: am i cheating?
 

That's not cheating, but the right thing to do is probably talk to the dealer about it (after his shift, away from the table).

PP

Re: am i cheating?
 

You are using information to which you are not entitled against the other players in the game. That fits my definition of cheating, but others may disagree. Would you want it done to you?

You should either tell the dealer or a floor person about this. Away from the table.

Re: am i cheating?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are using information to which you are not entitled against the other players in the game. That fits my definition of cheating, but others may disagree. Would you want it done to you?

You should either tell the dealer or a floor person about this. Away from the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if this occured during the course of playing BlackJack, would it be cheating (assume it's single or double-deck).

Re: am i cheating?
 

Long answer yes with an if, short answer no with a but.

Re: am i cheating?
 

MM has an essay about this in one of his Poker Essay's books.

In his opinion it is not cheating.

For another perspective see the movie Casino.

Paul

Re: am i cheating?
 

Interesting post, I don't have an answer. On a related note I play a home game with friends and beers all around and well, the dealing is terrible. I never purposely look to see the cards being flung high enough for me to see them but I see cards being dealt ALL THE TIME.

Now, me being the guy that I am I always immediately should out, "RED KING, saw it" to keep the game fair, afterall its with friends.

The thing is that I do it so regularily, maybe about a dozen or more times a night in a 3 hour game, that sometimes the players and especially the dealer get annoyed with me.

My response is always the same, "Would you rather I didn't say and used the info to my advantage? You should be thanking me."

Anyway, I don't really have a question I guess because I will always call out any cards I see in this game and I don't actively look for the cards, it just happens naturally as you usually look at the cards when they're being thrown at you (half the times they get thrown over the edge of the table anyway so I kind of have to watch).

I'm really rambling tonight, I should be studying and I'm using 2+2 to procrastinate. Anyone else have this problem when their friends deal horribly?

Re: am i cheating?
 

Its definate;y not cheating in bj
The dealer is a house employee and you are playing the house
Is it cheating when a dealer gives you bad advice? (which they usually, unintentionally are doing)

I think if you are playing against other people it is infact cheating such as in poker

Re: am i cheating?
 

Isn't this the same kind of thing where Daniel Negreanu took the pot when it was given to him by the dealer and opponent even though it was supposed to be a split pot? Someone elses mistake gives you an advantage. Poker is a game where you exploit other people's mistakes, in this case it's the dealers mistake. You're not doing anything the other players at the table can't also do. You're just observing your surroundings and gathering information. It would probably be best to go ahead and tell the dealer after he is done dealing but if you do spot this take advantage of it while you can. You're not 'cheating'.