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-   -   JJ in big pot - making bets that aren't for value. (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=407279)

Buckmulligan 12-29-2005 06:20 PM

JJ in big pot - making bets that aren\'t for value.
 
Sb is about 12/7/.65 through 100
CO is about 25/9/1.65 through 250

Both of my bets were more intended to fold better hands than to achieve value, as I was thinking that AK or AQ would have been inclined to bet the flop.

What do we think?


Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
[color=#666666]1 fold</font>, [color=#CC3333]UTG+1 raises</font>, [color=#666666]2 folds</font>, CO calls, [color=#CC3333]Hero 3-bets</font>, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, [color=#CC3333]BB caps</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (16.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (9.66 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](3 players)</font>
BB checks, CO checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets</font>, BB calls, CO calls.

River: (12.66 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](3 players)</font>
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 12.66 BB

UATrewqaz 12-29-2005 06:24 PM

Re: JJ in big pot - making bets that aren\'t for value.
 
I agree with the check through on the river and the bet on the turn.

I doubt BB has an A and and CO might.

BB has a pair higher than your jacks (QQ/KK) he wants to showdown and is scared of the ace and CO might have A8'ish or something or perhaps a club draw, he's harder to read in this spot.

Even though you've shown nothing but strength and a big ace is in your range, if the BB has KK/QQ he's normally calling you down.

12-29-2005 06:31 PM

Re: JJ in big pot - making bets that aren\'t for value.
 
While my experience at 3/6 is limited, I don't think you are going to get too many better hands to fold to 1 bet. I think I still bet the turn, but check the riv as you did.

As played, I don't like your chances of winning here. My guess is a sooted Ax. I think your scare bet works better if a 3rd club falls . . .

Buckmulligan 12-29-2005 06:33 PM

Re: JJ in big pot - making bets that aren\'t for value.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you are going to get too many better hands to fold to 1 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not betting the turn unless I think I have the fold equity.

Do I?

bozlax 12-29-2005 06:51 PM

Re: JJ in big pot - making bets that aren\'t for value.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you are going to get too many better hands to fold to 1 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not betting the turn unless I think I have the fold equity.

Do I?

[/ QUOTE ]

As others have said, I think your FE on the flop and the turn is approaching zero against any ace. I dunno where somebody got that one of your Villans might have KK/QQ...that's just crazy talk. (Edit: oops, I take that back. Should've read the OP more closely. Sure would've been nice if it had been converted properly...Buck, you should know enough to proofread before posting.)

HOWEVER, I think the turn bet was good if you intended it to be the last money you put in without seeing another J.

12-29-2005 07:04 PM

Re: JJ in big pot - making bets that aren\'t for value.
 
I think that the only chance you have of winning this hand is with another bet on the river.

milesdyson 12-29-2005 07:07 PM

Re: JJ in big pot - making bets that aren\'t for value.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think that the only chance you have of winning this hand is with another bet on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
100% true. and since the chance we win with a river bet is like 1%, it isn't worth trying.

Aaron W. 12-29-2005 07:39 PM

Re: JJ in big pot - making bets that aren\'t for value.
 
I think it's fine. Lose to BB's QQ or CO's weak ace and get on to the next hand. There's little else you can do.

(Check behind on the turn and fold the river UI? It's worth considering if BB isn't crazy.)


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