Flop nut straight...played right?
 

200NL on Pokerroom. Generally passive game with its fair share of idiots. I start the hand with $255, LP has $245 and BB has $200 even.

Two limps, I limp in MP/LP with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and one limp behind me. Blinds complete and we see a flop of

Flop: ($10) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB bets $5, fold to me and I call, and LP calls. Three of us to the turn.

Turn: ($25) [3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks, I bet $18, LP calls, BB calls.

River: ($79) [3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks, I bet $60, LP raises to $120, BB folds, I call.

How'd I do? All comments welcome.

The Doc

Re: Flop nut straight...played right?
 

I raise the flop and pot the turn.

Re: Flop nut straight...played right?
 

Why raise the flop? None too many cards hurt me and I'd love someone to catch a 6-high straight on the turn.

The Doc

Re: Flop nut straight...played right?
 

Raise flop to get money in and to make people pay if they have a set, 2 pair. Also raise becuase people will call drawind almost dead.

Preflop, I prefer raisinf or folding this hand. Too often I get stacked by a higher flush so Iv recently stopped limping most suited connectors.

Re: Flop nut straight...played right?
 

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Why raise the flop? None too many cards hurt me and I'd love someone to catch a 6-high straight on the turn.

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would you raise with a set?

Re: Flop nut straight...played right?
 

i like the idea of trying to get max value for this hand.. but you made a few key errors i'd like to explain.

the flop is somewhat of a kind of situation that if you raise here you can probably eliminate one opponent and the one who initially bet out will call anyways.. and now the field is thinned and your chances of winning at showdown are higher even though right now you have the best hand.

with flops like this its very likely he limped with a small pair and you dont want multiple opponents with many different combinations of hands when you are sure you can nail the guy who overplays his set.

on the turn you have to wonder why both of them flat called here. if they've made their straight also.. im pretty sure anybody would come here with a raise because of the spade draw and relatively passive betting rounds.

with that miniraise on the end.. what do you put him on when you call? or did you get too excited about your made hand and forget about whats in front of you.. because that is a costly error.

Re: Flop nut straight...played right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why raise the flop? None too many cards hurt me and I'd love someone to catch a 6-high straight on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

would you raise with a set?

[/ QUOTE ]

90% of the time. Sometimes when I have a set on a coordinated flop like this one I'll call the flop and hammer the turn if it's a brick, and play for a small pot otherwise.

The Doc

Re: Flop nut straight...played right?
 

yeah but this turn is a very dangerous card.

i will probably overbet the pot in this case many times.

when that 3rd spade comes and you get a miniraise w/ a straight on the board.. that is reaaallly sketchy after theyve been check-calling the whole time.

Re: Flop nut straight...played right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i like the idea of trying to get max value for this hand.. but you made a few key errors i'd like to explain.

the flop is somewhat of a kind of situation that if you raise here you can probably eliminate one opponent and the one who initially bet out will call anyways.. and now the field is thinned and your chances of winning at showdown are higher even though right now you have the best hand.

with flops like this its very likely he limped with a small pair and you dont want multiple opponents with many different combinations of hands when you are sure you can nail the guy who overplays his set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't think the BB had a set, because if so it's likely he would either bet more on the flop or go for a c/r, in order to get more money in quickly. And I ruled out a set from LP as well, because he didn't raise the flop either.

I think a my call on the flop can be defended because so many people like to raise their pair + draw type hands in an effort to end the hand there. Thus I called hoping someone would make a play at the pot with a hand like 56 (or even a set...when I called I didn't know that LP wouldn't raise) so that I could then wake up with a big reraise.

As it is, with a bet small, call, call situation, I didnt think a set was too likely. I put both of them on one-card draws.

[ QUOTE ]

with that miniraise on the end.. what do you put him on when you call? or did you get too excited about your made hand and forget about whats in front of you.. because that is a costly error.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I probably should have pushed...the only argument against that is that if he does happen to have a flush (like 6s 7s or something) then I get screwed. Overall however I think he has a 6 more often, for the one-off-the-nut straight, and he'll definitely call a push with that.

Good post!

The Doc

Re: Flop nut straight...played right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
yeah but this turn is a very dangerous card.

i will probably overbet the pot in this case many times.

when that 3rd spade comes and you get a miniraise w/ a straight on the board.. that is reaaallly sketchy after theyve been check-calling the whole time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder why you think the 2s is so dangerous. What percentage of the time do you think a runner runner draw is lurking among a player that bet the flop small and a player that overcalled?

The overbet idea is interesting because a naked 6 is coming along anyway...

At the time I thought the ideal situation would be to bet slightly less than the pot and get an ace (which just made the wheel) to play back at me. Moreover, If the nut flush draw is sticking around, then it should definitely make a big raise...

I guess overall what I'm trying to say is I bet less than the full pot on the turn because a) I still had the nuts and wanted lesser made hands to stick around, b) Hoped to get played back at by hands that just got there, and c) Didn't assign a high % to a runner runner spade draw being out there.

The Doc