Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

My story:

I am a 23 year old college student from the Kansas City area. I have read WLLHE, SSHE, and HEFAP and I consider myself a pretty smart and logical person. This last summer I decided to really start playing 3/6 W/kill Hold'em at the local Ameristar casino. I had a 2700 bankroll saved up and I had read SSHE several times. I felt confident that I would succeed in the game. By mid-July the entire bankroll was gone. I had lost it all. I felt I had played very well during this time so this was obviously quite frustrating for me. Over this period I continued to read SSHE and while I did identify some concepts that I was mis-applying, overall I played some quality poker. I was devastated at the time. It is very hard to get me to tilt so I knew it wasn't a problem.

Not knowing what to do I decided to read some articles on what to do while running bad. Most of them advised on taking a break from poker. I knew this was a ridiculous but I was so desperate at the time I figured what the hell. If you are playing winning poker no matter how bad you have run in the past you should stay in the game. I took a break from B&M poker until just this weekend.

I played Friday and Saturday night. I figured this would be a great way to start again as there is a ton of action at the 3/6 tables on weekends. I lost 500.

I am at a point where I don't know what to do. I love the game and I will never stop playing but I am also extremely unhappy with the way things are going. I am taking some horrendous beats every session.

I know this sounds like every other schmucks bad beat story. I guess that is the most difficult thing about all this. I don't feel like I have anyone to talk about this to who will have any understanding or sympathy. Many of you are probably thinking that I am too ignorant and arrogant to realize the gigantic holes in my game. Or maybe you think I am tilting away all my money. This may be the case, the mind has a way of fooling itself. That said, I truly believe in my heart and in my head that I am playing correct, disciplined poker.

I am starting to wonder whether I am a statistical outlier in the poker world. The chances are slim but so are getting hit in the head by a meteor and that has happened.

If you read all that I'm sorry, but I just had to get that all out there. Flame away or make snide comments if you want, but I just couldn't keep it inside any longer.

You are probably wondering by now what I need help with. Well, I would like someone who is very good at small stakes hold'em to review a list of my hands to find any holes in my game and give me advice. I plan on sitting at the table with a notebook and logging every single hand I play then copying it to MS word. I know this is -EV to do this but I don't know what else to do. I'm desperate.

I will gladly pay the person that accepts $50 transfered to their Poker Stars account.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

i'm going into hospital for a week and need some reading, if its a decent number of hands like over 20,000 then yeah i'll have a look for u, pm me.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

Hey dude, Heres my advice.

Don't go to B&M anymore, Infact after losing $2700 AT 3/6(450bb) I'd puke at the thought of it.

If you want to get into poker, learn the proper way and put the time in.

Firstly i think a few points:
1, your no way near as good as you think you are.
2, Losing 450BB is unlikly to be "a bad run"
3, $2700 lost and losing $500 more... Are you an addict? Im deadly serious? do you have an addictive personality?

ANyhow,
Cash in $30 to POKERSTARS. here you will play .05/.10. Yeah thats a huge drop from $3/6 but winning 1 pot in your whole life time at .05/.10 is 3200+ X Bigger than any wins you've had in terms of net profit.

Re-Read SSH, This is your bible. Post hands you found confusing in Micro forum.

When you get to $60 move up to .10/.20 and continue to grind.

Then post asking for more advice, this will keep you busy for a while.

If you go back to B&M i'll consider you a stupid fish and wont bother reading your posts.

If your disiplined, willing to learn poker and have a brain you'll most likly follow this advice.

Start small like i did, infact i started at 0.02/.04 so be happy you can play .05/.10. I'm at 1/2 currently and NO WAY will i touchb 3/6 for ages. And i've logged a hell of alot more hands than you [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

Maybe play online for a while?

There are a couple of plusses in that in your specific situation:

You can play far lower stakes so that if you have a couple of serious leaks it won't hurt you financially as much.

You can much easier track play with Pokertracker. (which is an absolute must buy in your situation)

You take out the factor of totally being read. Maybe a couple of the players at that casino table totally own you. Online and playing lower stakes that will certainly not be the case.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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Don't go to B&M anymore, Infact after losing $2700 AT 3/6(450bb) I'd puke at the thought of it.


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Unless I can find a logical reason that the mere fact that I am at a B&M cardroom means I will lose, this is unlikely. I enjoy B&M quite a bit more than online and my love of the game ensures that I will keep playing.

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1, your no way near as good as you think you are.


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I hope not. Then I can fix things. I can't fix bad luck.

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3, $2700 lost and losing $500 more... Are you an addict? Im deadly serious? do you have an addictive personality?


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Heh. I don't think I have an addictive personality unless you count competition. What kept me going back was that I figured as long as I kept playing winning poker over time the law of averages would kick in and I would start winning.

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Re-Read SSH, This is your bible. Post hands you found confusing in Micro forum.


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It already is my bible. I have read it so many times I think I need a new one. The pages are falling out.

I do play online and win a fair bit. I have about 450 in my account. Mostly S&Gs. It is enjoyable but I have so much more fun in a cardroom and I can play longer without my eyes getting red. There is just something about the social aspect of it. While I lost 200 last night I laughed my ass off on several occasions and almost fell out of my chair once. After a loss with AK an old man told me not to raise pre-flop with that hand because it is only %10 to win against 8 people. You can't get that experience online. Despite my losses I had a blast for the majority of the time.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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Don't go to B&M anymore, Infact after losing $2700 AT 3/6(450bb) I'd puke at the thought of it.


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Unless I can find a logical reason that the mere fact that I am at a B&M cardroom means I will lose, this is unlikely. I enjoy B&M quite a bit more than online and my love of the game ensures that I will keep playing.


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The different rake structure between on-line and B&M could easily turn a marginal winner on-line into a loser in B&M.

There is a huge difference between a 5% $3-max rake and a 10% $4-max rake. On top of that you pay tips to dealers and cocktail waitresses in B&M that you do not pay on-line.

Paul

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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After a loss with AK an old man told me not to raise pre-flop with that hand because it is only %10 to win against 8 people. You can't get that experience online. Despite my losses I had a blast for the majority of the time.

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well, not only are you not accepting help from a poster who is only trying to give you good advice, you're proving him right. The mere fact that you're shocked you lost with AK tells me that luck has nothing to do with your situation.
And you say you play S&G online? Well, unless they're fixed limit sit n go's this isn't helping your limit game. If you truly cared about improving your game, then stop being in denial and actually listen to some of the advice given to you.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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After a loss with AK an old man told me not to raise pre-flop with that hand because it is only %10 to win against 8 people. You can't get that experience online. Despite my losses I had a blast for the majority of the time.

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well, not only are you not accepting help from a poster who is only trying to give you good advice, you're proving him right. The mere fact that you're shocked you lost with AK tells me that luck has nothing to do with your situation.


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If I appear to be rejecting help from anyone I certainly do not mean to. All I meant to say was that until I find something specifically associated with B&M play that is causing me to lose shunning it altogether would be premature.

I think you misinterpretted my AK story. I told it to illustrate the amusing things that go on in a B&M cardroom. I don't know what % AK is against 8 opponents but it is certainly better than %10! I did a double-take when the old man said that.

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Well, unless they're fixed limit sit n go's this isn't helping your limit game. If you truly cared about improving your game, then stop being in denial and actually listen to some of the advice given to you.

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I don't feel I am in denial and I am trying to be as introspective as possible. I guess I have not really said it but I am taking in what you are all saying. I said I was desperate didn't I. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] You must understand that I have a competetive nature and I enjoy B&M poker so much that I have a strong desire to win there.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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The different rake structure between on-line and B&M could easily turn a marginal winner on-line into a loser in B&M.

There is a huge difference between a 5% $3-max rake and a 10% $4-max rake. On top of that you pay tips to dealers and cocktail waitresses in B&M that you do not pay on-line.

Paul

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That is a good point. I just read in a another thread how much people are spending on the rake. Some of the figures are incredible.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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After a loss with AK an old man told me not to raise pre-flop with that hand because it is only %10 to win against 8 people.

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For the sake of clarity: You raised after 7 limpers? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]


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You can't get that experience online. Despite my losses I had a blast for the majority of the time.

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If I'm steady taking your money, I'm going to do everything I can to entertain you and keep you re-loading and at my table. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

Quote:After a loss with AK an old man told me not to raise pre-flop with that hand because it is only %10 to win against 8 people. You can't get that experience online. Despite my losses I had a blast for the majority of the time.

Taking advice from a stranger on a live table may or may not be a good idea. In this case you are making a mistake, but don't seem to mind since you had a "blast". Get your priorities straight - do you want to win money, or just have a good time?

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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I don't feel I am in denial and I am trying to be as introspective as possible.

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No one in denial feels they are. Introspection has not helped you, it's gotten you where you are. What you need now is absorption. If you'll stop replying/defending and absorb what's being posted you can absorb. After you've absorbed then you can go back and use introspection. (Jeeze, I think I've just confused myself.)


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I guess I have not really said it but I am taking in what you are all saying. I said I was desperate didn't I. You must understand that I have a competetive nature and I enjoy B&M poker so much that I have a strong desire to win there.

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Maybe your competitive nature and enjoyment is outweighing your good judgement. You express yourself well. You're not dumb.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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After a loss with AK an old man told me not to raise pre-flop with that hand because it is only %10 to win against 8 people.

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For the sake of clarity: You raised after 7 limpers? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]


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Yes. AK has a significant equity edge no matter how many players have limped in.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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Yes. AK has a significant equity edge no matter how many players have limped in.

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well, duh. tnx 4 the lessun. i bin wunderin' abouddat.


I asked because I wanted to know if you truly meant you "raised" as opposed to "re-raised;" a common mistake/mis-use of the term, I often see in postings.

I'll not bother you again.

g/l

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

Play drunken 3/6 holdem (6-8 to the flop, 4 to showdown) the same as PL Omaha...loose preflop /tight postflop.

Dont suck postflop...

No way you should be bleeding chips like that.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

the best advice given here is to stop playing at ameristar. Im also in the kc area, and have played there several times. Im a fairly strong winner in most online mid limit games, and still am barely ahead playing there. Essentially, you are losing a big bet on almost every pot you win (rake, jp drop, and toke) and that doesnt include the .16BB you are losing everytime the nice lady brings you a water. I know live play is appealing, but you should use it almost exlcusively as a release or escape from online play, which is much more lucrative not only in reduced rake, but also in external costs (gas, tips, food). In addition, you can play at least two tables, meaning you should be able to increase your hourly earn without increasing you ROR to much.

Also, while i havent seen you play at all, im willing to bet you are giving action far too much post flop when you are beat. Given the already high cost of just sitting at the table, even one bad call an hour can devestate your winrate.

If you arent willing to play online, theres not many other options for you. The occasional 6/12 kill that runs is a little better, but would require more than youre probably willing to put into a new roll. I would follow the advice given above, except i would deposit 200-ish into party, playing the 1/2 game. In addition, by playing online you can more easily track your hands using pokertracker, and its far easier to show your hands to others here on the forum.

peace

john nickle

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

Look bro i don't want to flame you, thats just pointless and makes you more likly to ignore my advice.

You think your playing "winning poker". What tells you this?

You're playing LOSING POKER, 450BB+ Loss tells me this.

Now if you're going to continue to be in denial and fund the live players $3/6 holidays then feel free.

If you want to get good at poker, following my advice and start playing Limit hold'em at .05/.10. If this hurts you're ego then play .10/.20... and if you want to play higher after losing $3200 you're stupid.

Infact, if you think your so good load up 4 tables play for 4hours and see if your winning at the .05/.10.

Royal Vegas will give you $10 for signing up i think(they may have cancel this offer).

If you don't want to take my advice, then when your down another 150BB's but "Enjoy playing live" then don't post asking for help.

Take your $50 that you're donating to whoever gives you advice/analyses your hands and cash it into play 0.05/.10 limit games.

After all, you won't take the advice unless its what you want to hear it seems.

You seem to be fairly logical and your posts dont portray you as an idiot so hopefully you follow the advice given. If not, then have fun at B&M.... Better get a weekend job to pay for your fun though.

Ill check this thread again in a bit to see what response you've given. i dont like to see anyone who actually wants help to suffer more loses to gambling but you can't help the helpless.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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After a loss with AK an old man told me not to raise pre-flop with that hand because it is only %10 to win against 8 people. You can't get that experience online. Despite my losses I had a blast for the majority of the time.

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well, not only are you not accepting help from a poster who is only trying to give you good advice, you're proving him right. The mere fact that you're shocked you lost with AK tells me that luck has nothing to do with your situation.
And you say you play S&G online? Well, unless they're fixed limit sit n go's this isn't helping your limit game. If you truly cared about improving your game, then stop being in denial and actually listen to some of the advice given to you.

[/ QUOTE ]


dont be such a presumptuous douche

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

usually im one to jump onto the bandwagon of making rude comments to these kinds of posts, but i think this is a legitimate one. there are a few problems. the most important one is that youre probably not playing that well. when ssh first came out, there were a ton of people coming on here and claiming the advice is flawed. it was clear from reading the hand posts that they were just misapplying his good advice. poker is not the kind of game where you can study real hard and expect good results immediately. i think being in college makes it tougher because we are so used to getting results roughly proportionate to the amount of effort we put in. you need to log as many hands as possible to get experience, which is what youre lacking. actual experience will get you better a lot quicker than reading ssh again.

to get this experience you really need to play online. i understand you find playing online a lot less fun than playing live. i think everyone does. but online play is like a chore for the priviledge of getting to play live. you build your roll a lot faster so when you do go play live you can play 30/60 or 100/200 or whatever. that is a lot more fun than playing 3/6. youre also paying a higher rake live so its hard to make as much money. you can make maybe $20/hr playing 3/6 live but probably upwards of $60 or 70 playing 3/6 online. so you will make money faster and you will accelerate your growth at the cost of having less fun for now.

also, from a statistical standpoint, it is possible for you to be playing winning poker. most kill games ive played tend to be kill more often than not so youre really playing a 5/10ish game rather than 3/6. you lost around 320 BB now. that is possible that you are a very slight winner and had a run like that. clearly you cant be crushing the game, which you ought to be able to do if youre playing good poker. so if you are very unlucky, like 99th percentile unlucky, it's possible you are actually a small winner.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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You're playing LOSING POKER, 450BB+ Loss tells me this.

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A 3-6 kill game with a $3 rake it's very possible to lose $3200. Yes, he could be a losing player, but just simply looking at his loss in this game isn't enough.

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Now if you're going to continue to be in denial and fund the live players $3/6 holidays then feel free.


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Have you ever played live 3-6? You think this is full of sharks and pros? Please. It's nothing like online 3-6. In fact, with a kill game it's likely a very gravy game even with the high rake. Live 3-6 is also very easily replenishable should one go on a bad streak. It's a learning limit just like live 4-8. No one is really playing live 4-8/3-6 to make a living.

About the only thing I agree with is playing the micros online until he feels he's winning and gains some confidence, among other things.

Btw...'Live' teaches you alot that you can't learn online. Even at the low limits. The hands per hour are so reduced compared to online that it's like the micros online in some respects. You also have alot more time between hands to analyze stuff and think about one's play.

Based on your response, it doesn't seem like you've ever played live LL holdem before.

b

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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I laughed my ass off on several occasions and almost fell out of my chair once. After a loss with AK an old man told me not to raise pre-flop with that hand because it is only %10 to win against 8 people. You can't get that experience online.

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I think many missed the first line of this quote when they've been referring to it.

b

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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and its far easier to show your hands to others here on the forum.


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It's even easier to respond to hands already posted and compare your thinking/reasoning to other responders.

b

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

Nice post...Other than the part quoted below.

He can play both online and live while getting back on his feet. Both can benefit each other.

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you can make maybe $20/hr playing 3/6 live

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No one is consistently making $20/hr in a live 3-6 game. Not even close.

b

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

A long losing streak is a thing to behold. Don't think for a minute that lady luck can't kick you to the extent you describe but it's not likely. Listen to what these guys are saying, move down in stakes,play some online and get more experience.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

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Cash in $30 to POKERSTARS. here you will play .05/.10. Yeah thats a huge drop from $3/6 but winning 1 pot in your whole life time at .05/.10 is 3200+ X Bigger than any wins you've had in terms of net profit.

Re-Read SSH, This is your bible. Post hands you found confusing in Micro forum.

When you get to $60 move up to .10/.20 and continue to grind.

Re-Read SSH

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This quote is probably the best info you can find on these forums.


I was in the same boat. Bought into PP and lost my BR. I then reread my books, and STUDIED THEM. I then bought in with the PROPER BANK ROLL(x300 bb) and am currently working on my game grinding the PS .05/.10 tables (25k hands @ 4.8 bb/100). I also dicuss my hands frequently with another soild player and just lurk these forums when others dicuss their hands.

Simple outcome, my game has turned around completely.

One last thing that has helped me with badbeats and downswings is to not view your BR as money, think of everything in bets. If you start thinking in money won and lost per session you'll lose your aggression and your game goes to XXXX.

I know its the same ole thing all the solid players say, but they're solid for a reason.

Re: Will a good SS Hold\'em player help me?
 

Hi Farfenugen,

I liked your post and I disagree with some of the posters opinions of your issues.

Although, I spent 3 or 4 months playing .50/1.00 online before I made it to a casino for the first time, my first experience with 3/6 live was astonishing. The looseness of the game was something I had not encountered online. It seemed like an entirely new challenge to learn to beat this game. I did lose for several sessions before I could make the adjustments necessary to beat this game. I, like you, enjoy the live game and I think it is important in the development of your game to learn to play both live and online. The two games in my opinion are very different.

I have since moved up substantially in levels both online and live but looking back at my stats at 3/6 live I earned 2.23 BB/hr for 13.38/hr. I don’t want to make a super long post with the adjustments I made, but pm me if you would like to know. I am certainly not an expert compared to many of the posters on here who could help you with specifics if they wanted to.