Pain in the backside AJo hand
 

Party 5/10. Very loose passive kind of line-up.

I open raise AJo UTG. Two cold callers and the button 3-bets. Blinds call along as do I and the other two. So that's a big pot. Eighteen small bets preflop. The button 3-bet means business and I am almost certainly dominated.

Flop: A 7 4. It's checked to me.

So here's my question. Bet or check?

Guy.

Re: Pain in the backside AJo hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
The button 3-bet means business and I am almost certainly dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are you putting him on exactly AK or AQ?

Re: Pain in the backside AJo hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The button 3-bet means business and I am almost certainly dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are you putting him on exactly AK or AQ?

[/ QUOTE ]


im not exactly sure, but i think guy means AA-JJ, AK-AQ is his 3betting range.

Re: Pain in the backside AJo hand
 

I check. Betting doesn't serve much of a purpose.

Re: Pain in the backside AJo hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I check. Betting doesn't serve much of a purpose.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you elaborate on this? Are you intending to CR the button?

Re: Pain in the backside AJo hand
 

do you know if this guy will take a free card with TT-kk? If there's any chance of this your much better off betting and calling down if raised. Free cards would suck in a 6 way pot, losing too much value.

Re: Pain in the backside AJo hand
 

I would bet even knowing that there is a chance that I am dominated. That would be the best way of thinning the field. The middle cold callers might call for 1 but be cautious that the buttn will raise. If the bttn does raise forcing the blinds to call 2. This way I can play against 2-3 instead of the full field. If I am behind I am only losing a 1/2 bet certainly worth the increased pot equity if I am behind. (this is not even considering that I am ahead and the extra bets are all profit if I win)

You decide to check and it is checked to bttn who has KK and figures that somebody has an A and checks it. Now how much did that cost you when an open end star8 or a flush draw opens up for a no hope hand.

Re: Pain in the backside AJo hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet even knowing that there is a chance that I am dominated. That would be the best way of thinning the field. The middle cold callers might call for 1 but be cautious that the buttn will raise. If the bttn does raise forcing the blinds to call 2. This way I can play against 2-3 instead of the full field. If I am behind I am only losing a 1/2 bet certainly worth the increased pot equity if I am behind. (this is not even considering that I am ahead and the extra bets are all profit if I win)

You decide to check and it is checked to bttn who has KK and figures that somebody has an A and checks it. Now how much did that cost you when an open end star8 or a flush draw opens up for a no hope hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I would bet and hope the button raises for the same reasons mentioned above.

Re: Pain in the backside AJo hand
 

I'm hoping it's between betting and going for a cr.

I like betting, for the already stated reason that it might otherwise get checked around, plus the blinds are likely to have more outs than the cold callers, so getting them out (assuming the button raises) is a bigger priority.

Re: Pain in the backside AJo hand
 

I've thought some more about this and the right move seems very clear, but of course it could be that my brain is not working.

If the preflop 3-bettor's range is what I think it is (as baron said, JJ+ and AQ+) then after the flop it's about 50/50 that I'm in front of him:

I beat:

JJ x 3
QQ x 6
KK x 6

I lose to:

AA x 1
AK x 8
AQ x 8

As for the other guys in the pot, anything could happen.

I think it's much easier to judge which side of this I'm on if I bet: if the PFR has me beat, he'll almost surely raise the flop for value, whereas if I am beating him it is very unlikely he'll raise all these players. So the flop action will tell me where I am, and on balance bets going in to this pot are +EV for me, so a bet can't be wrong and it will help me play accurately the rest of the way.

On the other hand a check could be awful since if the PFR bets I won't necessarily know where I am, and if he checks it through then I've given everyone a free card when I almost surely have the best hand.

So on balance I think a bet is the clear winner here. Anyone disagree?

Guy.