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-   -   QQ final table (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=408208)

12-31-2005 12:12 PM

QQ final table
 
Live tournament, top 4 paid (50/25/15/10). 7 players left, I am 3rd with 17.5K, big stacks both have ~ 25K. Blinds 2000/4000 ante 500. I get QQ UTG+1 - big stacks are on the button and SB, respectively. No real strong reads on either of the big stacks- they both seem like "solid" players.

My M here clearly justifies all-in. But I figure, I am playing for first and I don't mind a call from one of the big stacks if they get a hand, so I open-raise to 10K, commiting myself to the pot. Thoughts?

12-31-2005 12:35 PM

Re: QQ final table
 
Bad. First, you probably are not affecting anyone's decision very much. To the extent that you are, however, it's not a good thing. BB would have practically the correct odds to call you with Ax or Kx even if you went all in. The EV gain from this call would be pretty marginal for you, and since this is a bubble situation, $EV and cEV probably don't align perfectly. In other words, you should push and be happy if Ax folds.

Then there are metagame considerations. If you showdown QQ here, your pushes are going to get that much less respect in the future, since they'll consider it that much less likely you have a hand.

illegit 12-31-2005 12:46 PM

Re: QQ final table
 
Open push. You're obviously tying yourself to the pot but you don't want anyone to be able to get away from a dominated pair, or whiffed high cards on the flop, even though they'll be getting great odds to call your push on the flop, they might not know that. Make them put it all-in now when you have what's almost certainly the best hand. Or increase your stack my 50%. There's far too much in the middle to care about whether or not you'll get action.

betgo 12-31-2005 01:35 PM

Re: QQ final table
 
If your opponents are any good, they may read the 60% stack raise as a big pair. Just push.

Dave D 12-31-2005 02:48 PM

Re: QQ final table
 
[ QUOTE ]
Bad. First, you probably are not affecting anyone's decision very much. To the extent that you are, however, it's not a good thing. BB would have practically the correct odds to call you with Ax or Kx even if you went all in. The EV gain from this call would be pretty marginal for you, and since this is a bubble situation, $EV and cEV probably don't align perfectly. In other words, you should push and be happy if Ax folds.

Then there are metagame considerations. If you showdown QQ here, your pushes are going to get that much less respect in the future, since they'll consider it that much less likely you have a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exitonly 12-31-2005 03:07 PM

Re: QQ final table
 
[ QUOTE ]
If you showdown QQ here, your pushes are going to get that much less respect in the future, since they'll consider it that much less likely you have a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


er.. what?

If you're showing down strong hands, you don't lose fold equity.

KingDan 12-31-2005 03:46 PM

Re: QQ final table
 
[ QUOTE ]
Then there are metagame considerations. If you showdown QQ here, your pushes are going to get that much less respect in the future, since they'll consider it that much less likely you have a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cards do not have memory. You are just as likely to get a big hand after getting QQ after getting 23o.

I push this.

Roman 12-31-2005 03:48 PM

Re: QQ final table
 
same thing.... *yawn*


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