20/40 Getting aggressive
 

I know a lot of you wont like this hand right off the bat because you're weak-tight. You only like to play the nuts, and thats cool. I like playing split aces and rolled on third as well. Some of you like beermoney even like to play with other guys nuts, and thats....uhhhh.....kinda sick. But lets try to take our skirts off for a minute here before you guys let me have it and label me as a LAG this hand. Villain just joined the table a few orbits ago and isnt anyone I've ever played with or seen in this game.

7 Card Stud High ($20/$40), Ante $2, Bring-In $5 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.40 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in

4th Street - (0.90 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises

5th Street - (2.45 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

fold third. I know you're the bring in, but this hand is just going to get you in trouble, especially with the way you play the later streets, as evidenced by your fourth and fifth street play. In this tight ante structure, I won't make it past fourth unless I have quads. You have to learn how to adapt to the structure of the game.

Beer [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PS, I'm glad you were able to witness a classic hit and run.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

I dunno man… and there’s no way you can know either. I mean, you don’t know him so you can’t put him on a range. The limp does seem fishy though, so I suppose it’s okay.
Personally, I’d rather wait till I have a read before I get involved with so little money in the pot.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I’d rather wait till I have a read before I get involved with so little money in the pot.



[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you're saying man, but thats just my point. I see so many players here always wanting to wait for a better read or a better spot. Isnt it all relative though? I mean, If I am right here and I'm putting money in with the best hand, then it dosent really matter whats in the pot. I actually think my desire to get into risky situations that most would want to "wait for a better spot" is what makes me more money than players that play tighter. Stud is a game of pushing small percentages. It not only supplies me with a better image helping my good hands get paid off and appearing to be an action player. But I think I now have played enough stud through the years to handle situations where I've put myself in jeopardy very well. This not only goes for plays like this, but playing additional hands on third as well, using my superior skills to "catch up" on the later rounds. Like the gospel (7csfap's) says "if you can find a few extra hands per session and average a few bucks on each...". I think several players (Roland you're especially one of the ones I have in mind) could play more hands and show a much larger profit than they do now. Perhaps this is one of those hands.

Mike Emery

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

With all due respect, what's the point here? You started off your post by defending what you knew the response would be. You know it's -EV, at least by the book. If you feel like for you it's +EV because you get a "better image" or you know how to "handle situations where I've put myself in jeopardy" then go for it.

If you're going to play this way, then go for it. But again, why are you posting this hand? And when you get the inevitable response, why are you so defensive?

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

4 handed, I don't hate it at all. I think you are most likely ahead unless he is a tricky player. you really aren't losing to many hands unless he limped with aces or a concealed pair. the only thing I'm afraid of is a third four (which I don't think he had).

I would say most likely he limped with ace high maybe akx or aj10 or something... and bet fourth as a "delayed steal"
on fifth when he pairs, I give him credit for a pair of fours and that's about it, I think it is just another attempt to continue his steal since he caught a little something. I think your fives are most likely ahead, but I tend to get a little aggressive short-handed, so perhaps take it for what it's worth.

out of curiosity, what do you do if he three bets fifth street? what about if he leads out sixth?

-lane

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

[ QUOTE ]
With all due respect, what's the point here? You started off your post by defending what you knew the response would be. You know it's -EV, at least by the book. If you feel like for you it's +EV because you get a "better image" or you know how to "handle situations where I've put myself in jeopardy" then go for it.

If you're going to play this way, then go for it. But again, why are you posting this hand? And when you get the inevitable response, why are you so defensive?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

[ QUOTE ]
You know it's -EV, at least by the book.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think he's saying that at all.. I think he's saying he thinks his 5's are slightly ahead, and he's not afraid to push that edge. If his opponent folds somewhere along the line that's great.

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

Calm down uwda. I’m sure Mike didn’t post this hand to boast about his awesome poker skills but because he thought it ws interesting and he played it correctly.



[ QUOTE ]
Isnt it all relative though? I mean, If I am right here and I'm putting money in with the best hand, then it dosent really matter whats in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]


Correct. Here’s my problem though:
You belive you have a small edge - lets say you figure you’re a 55-45 favorite on average. The thing is you have to be real sure about this in this ante structure. If this game had a $3 ante things would be different… even if you messed up and are actually a 55-45 dog, you’d still win that extra $1.80. Or if this had been 6 handed instead of 4-handed. As it is though, the risk-reward ratio just sucks in that game.
I know you know this stuff, but what else can I say.


[ QUOTE ]
I think several players (Roland you're especially one of the ones I have in mind) could play more hands and show a much larger profit than they do now.


[/ QUOTE ]


Well, I don’t know. You must be over-estimating my skills because every time I try to loosen up I crash and burn.
I’ve tried $3/$6 even, just to see if I would do better playing more hands in looser structure. I have a lot of problems there though - I think because most marginal hands need to get heads-up to show a profit, but those guys just never fold. 3Q3 isn’t all that profitable 5-way…

Probably I just suck. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: 20/40 Getting aggressive
 

Here's my problem with this specific hand:

I'm fine with the raise on fourth -- you may have the best hand, you may not. I often play split aces by limping in a four way game, but I also would play hands like (JQ)A, three flush, (22)A. But when he calls on fourth and makes an open pair on fifth and bets...the gig's up. Small pots in short games, got to be able to do that old raise/fold thing. Cause if he does have aces up, or even sixes up, you in trouble.