Re: $22: Push or wait with an uber short stack
 

SNGPT doesn't allow for multiple callers, but ICM does, or at least it doesn't stop you. It just makes the calcs more complicated. Some new poster that is interested in learning how to do these types of calcs should make a new thread and do this.

Re: $22: Push or wait with an uber short stack
 

I think you're forgetting how often some idiot openlimps at the 22s. You get 3 more hands but only 1 that you can be sure to be first to act. You can wait and race with an average hand in the BB, but you might get a multiway pot and you obviously have no FE.

Also, I think you guys are overestimating how loose the blinds will be here. The SB will want a decent hand to call here, and the BB will make some incorrect folds. I guarantee that with more confidence than Jukel can guarantee getting a better hand by the blinds.

Post deleted by Cola
 

Re: $22: Push or wait with an uber short stack
 

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You are not worthy to tie my shoe laces.

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FYP.

Re: $22: Push or wait with an uber short stack
 

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Is this REALLY what people think when playing poker? I always wanted to know.

All I have to say is...LOL.

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Please explain. Are your hand selection requirements the same from UTG as in late position?

If not, why does that answer not apply equally here?

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Stop! LOL Stop! I am laughing too much!

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AKA: I have no answer, so I'll make it look like your question was pointless even though it punches holes in my argument that I cannot defend.

Re: $22: Push or wait with an uber short stack
 

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What 45s said, plus, you need to apply this kind of thinking to the next two hands as well to get a feel for how crappy the situation REALLY is.

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I'm saying you don't need to push any of the next couple hands. In all likelihood, you'll end up racing in the BB. If you happen to get lucky enough to get a nice hand that you can shove, awesome. It's just better to race or even get a walk in the BB than it is to make EXTREMELY marginal pushes for your entire stack, even though it's quite small.

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You want to get the most out of that stack in situations like these. It isnt about giving up, its all about the fact that you have an opportunity here to make HALF of the remaining players fold and to be HU a majority of the time. Your FE against SB is real...that's the crux of the argument.

If I had t140 I would wait for a better hand.

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I think most of this boils down to how often do SB and BB call. I think BB's calling 75%+ of hands. However when SB calls (how much? 15% 25%?), BB will call with 100% of hands because he's getting pot odds and probably knows you're "supposed" to try to eliminate the shorty all in.

So 15% of the time you're called in two spots, by a 15% hand range and a 100% hand range. 63.7% of the time you get called by a 75% hand range, and 21.2% of the time you don't get called. So let's figure out the equities:

vs two opponents (15% and 100%): 24.11% equity in the hand, 15% tourney equity if you win. So (.2411 * .15) = 3.6% tourney equity after this hand

vs one opponent (75%): 46% equity in the hand, 11.6% tourney equity if you win. (.26 * .116) = 3% tourney equity.

When they both fold: 9% tourney equity

Now weighting them:
.15 * .036 = 0.5%
.637 * .03 = 1.9%
.212 * .09 = 1.9%

Add em up and you get 4.3% equity vs 5.6% equity if you fold.

That took a little while [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] So I'm not going to do it for a different call range for the BB. But as you can see, they'll both have to be playing a bit tighter for a push to be +EV.

Re: $22: Push or wait with an uber short stack
 

One last thing, all trolls and troll-hunters or anyone who has brought up or even thought of making a post which includes the word "troll" (excluding this one, of course [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) should shut the [censored] up and take it to PM.

Re: $22: Push or wait with an uber short stack
 

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I call BS

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Like the terminology, think I may adopt it.

Re: $22: Push or wait with an uber short stack
 

So you feel that your EV is higher by waiting?

IOW, you argue that the equity you save by folding on this hand is more than the equity you lose on subsequent hands where you have: more players acting after you, the possibility of a raise before you, and a worse hand (this last point I will concede as irrelevent).

The issue comes down to whether your FE is so small so as to negate position and being open folded to. I dont think it is here...with less chips I would agree.

Re: $22: Push or wait with an uber short stack
 

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One last thing, all trolls and troll-hunters or anyone who has brought up or even thought of making a post which includes the word "troll" (excluding this one, of course [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) should shut the [censored] up and take it to PM.

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People call em as they see them bro... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]