Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond
 

I opened in the cutoff with AdQd, JJ Liu makes it 140k from the button. Blinds fold. Flop is K66 rainbow. I check, JJ Liu bets 100k, I call. Turn is offsuit 2, I bet 200k, JJ calls. River is another offsuit blank, I shove for the rest of her stack(about 600k more). She calls and opens KK.

Earlier in the night, she folded KK face up on a flop of T66, with preflop action like this, phil laak opens utg for a standard raise. JJ Liu reraises big from the button, folds to Laak who calls. Laak leads the flop for 75k(with around 500k behind before the bet, I believe.) JJ raises Laak to 175k, with around 900k behind her. Laak shoves the rest of his stack in. She thinks for 10 minutes and then mucks KK face up.

Side Note: I had never been caught bluffing by anyone at the table, and JJ had consistently shown that she respected my raises, she knew I was out of line alot preflop, but postflop, she never saw anything from me that could be construed as "way out of line."


I had actually been playing relatively passive post flop with the intention of getting into a situation with her such as this. My thinking was that if I could get to the river without allowing the pot to get way out of line, but still large enough to make it worth my while, then I could get her to fold everything but the near nuts. We both very lighthearted with each throughout the night, and joked and talked through different hands as they were being played out....I really believe she is folding everything but the hand she had and quads, of course.

Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond
 

im glad you made this post, i followed the pokerwire updates and it was nice to see the situation as I assumed you had a read and you did, so yeah thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] good luck tomorrow

Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond
 

Yea she probably doesn't call with less than a K... but how often is she going to be getting to this point without a K.

I think the flop was where to try something. She bets small w/ 100k.. why not try to take it from her here with a checkraise.

Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond
 

well, i liked the flop call intending to steal, but the her call on the turn when you do make the move looks really bad to me, warning bells going off kinda stuff. I mean, she's not on a draw, and if she's playing carefull, at that point I'd be thinking she has the K, or a high pair and is convinced you dont. either way maybe you give up on this one.

BUT, standered disclaimer, I donk off chips more often than most, and have ran crappy in general lately, so take anything i'm saying for what it's worth.

Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond
 

Tough hand. I mean, you look like a genius when she folds AK or QQ, but when you bluff into the second nuts, then you look sorta retarded.

Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond
 

exit,

he said that he thinks she doesn't call on the end with less than KK, that's way different than not calling without at least one king.

c

Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond
 

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I'd be thinking she has the K, or a high pair and is convinced you dont

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I also thought that she had a K, or at the very worst JJ, but I really trusted my read that she would fold all one pair hands, and possibly even A6(which, given the preflop action is a virtual impossible holding for her.) I had been in several hands where the action made it to the river, and I had made large bets on that street, and always showed the nuts, or near nuts. Remember, we were talking throughout the night about hands being played out, so it was definitely recognized by her that I only made it to the river with the best hand. There was never a situation(that was shown down) where I had made a river bet, that wasn't obviously a value bet, that a one pair hand could beat.

In retrospect, I wish I had given the hand up, but I had spent alot of time setting up a big hand with her, and this really felt like it was the "spot." I felt like I needed to take advantage of it, while it was there. In any case, when I was thinking about the size of my bet on the turn, I really wanted to make a bet that tested her stack, yet, wasn't impossible to call, with the idea that my continuation bet on the river was a natural conclusion to representing the near nuts, but with overtones of a bluff. Which would be very similar to other lines I had played out in previous hands, yet showed the near nuts.

Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond
 

the way i see it, you check she bet about 1/3 of the pot on the flop. fine, you call cuz 1/3 doesnt mean a whole lot. pots now about 500k. you bet 200, meaning if she calls total pot is around 900k, JUST enough to make a perfect 600k bet on the river to drag the pot. i like yer thinking a lot from that standpoint. damn near perfect pot building.

however.. what kind of hand, will she reraise with pf, bet 1/3 the pot, and called yer 2/5 pot bet on the turn. on a K662 board. i think, as im sure she does, that you are capable of using that betting pattern with any RANGE or hands, AK, 56d, AJ, and 44 included. however, with a weaker hand, say QQ/JJ type of hand, maybe even AK, i think she puts in a raise on the turn, and i dont think for a second she calls expecting to check it down on the river. she knows better than to think yer gonna give up the pot on the end. this leaves 2 hands in my mind that she can make this play with. KK and AA. i dont think for a second that she is folding either of these for a 600k bet into the 900k pot on the river. you must give her a TON of respect if you think she folds AA there, or even AK. K66 isnt even close to the same type of board as T66.

i understand that it was a situation play, etc, that you had been building up for and wanted to take advantage of the situation, etc. however, i dont think this was QUITE the situation you were looking for, as it was a draw free paired board in which the 6 PROBABLY didnt help you. meh, i duno, i love the betting pattern you used, as its one of my favorites, but not on this kind of board. holla

Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond
 

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she knows better than to think yer gonna give up the pot on the end.

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I had given up at least 3 other pots to her, after making one fairly large continuation bet, and she had always proceeded to bet behind me, when I checked the next street, and I had folded. Because we were discussing almost every hand that was being played out, she had always shown her hand, even though her bet wasn't called, and it was always, an overpair, TPTK, or an underpair to just the top pair on board. Basically, we had established that we were not going to get involved in big pots with each other, without very strong holdings. We both had too many chips, and too much to lose.

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you must give her a TON of respect if you think she folds AA there, or even AK.

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It really isn't about giving her respect, it is about her past play, she is definitely more into stack protection than making great reads. She would frequently call smallish bets, that couldn't hurt her stack, with much less than top pair. But if there were any type of action that threatened her stack, she never showed worse than TPTK, and that is when the opposing player gave up, whenever the pressure continued, she wouldn't even call. Granted, those hands where she didn't call, she may have had garbage, but more likely, she was folding because she didn't want to damage her stack, if she didn't have the best hand. I don't think that she really even tried making a read that wasn't based on bet sizes. Based on that, and the fact that I had set up a pattern of only having very strong hands when I bet large on the river, I am 100% that she is never calling with AA or AK on the river.

Re: Hand from Bellagio 5 diamond
 

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I am 100% that she is never calling with AA or AK on the river.

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that is an incredible strong assessment. she would have to ping you on damn near exactly KK. as such.. is the line you took on this hand the line you would take with KK? obv her reaction would be different because she didnt in fact have KK also.. however im curious how you would play such a hand, or even something like 76s/65s type of hand.. presuming she had AA or AK and you were trying to maximize value. holla