Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

I seem to be a subsistance poker player. Every month I make my profit and it goes on rent, bills, car etc. I don't seem to be getting ahead. I'm not able to move up in money level and so increase my profits.
I was wondering are there other people like me and how they have managed. I can't/don't want to get credit. I play $10/$20 sng's and feel my game is upto moving up but don't want to bust my bankroll as it's my living money.
I was also wondering if money games would be more profitable. I am proud of making a living from poker, but at the moment it's a small one and it's irritating reading articles about other guys making a very (comforatble) living. Cheers.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

Ugh...gotta be brutal making a living at the $10s and 20s

Try getting a "real job." This way poker is more of a supplemental income and you'll feel more comfortable trying to move up in limits. Then when you're at a limit you feel comfortable with and feel like you can make enough to live on...quit.

Who knows you may get lucky and find a real job that you enjoy as much or more than poker.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

Play more games?

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

if you can't build your bankroll from scratch while "playing for a living" you either shouldn't be doing it because your real life is too expensive or aren't serious enough about it to do it.

c

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

I played $20s for a living for a long time and had the same problem as you. I would try to play enough every month to set money aside for moving up, but I would let real life get in the way and I would only end up making a little extra. My bankroll was growing, but too slowly. Then this fall I decided to sacrifice several months of my social life to XXXtreme bankroll-building, on the theory that once I was able to move up to the $50s, I would make enough money playing reasonable hours to let me have a life while still building my roll. After 2 months of hardcore playing, I reached my goal and moved up. Then disaster struck and I had to move down again, but if it hadn't been for my hard work during those 2 months, the disaster would have bankrupted me altogether. Now, I know that after just a couple more months I can be back where I was. I have done it once & know I can do it again.

So, my point is...if you're serious about this, make a plan & stick to it. Play a lot more than usual for a couple of months. After a while, what once seemed like an insanely challenging work schedule will come to seem quite feasible. If you're persistent & diligent, and you really have the skill to beat higher games, you will be on your way in just a few months.

Best of luck & happy holidays. See you on the leaderboard!

Ilya

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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Every month I make my profit and it goes on rent, bills, car etc. I don't seem to be getting ahead.

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This sounds like my life story working a regular job. Be thankful that at least you can make your own hours and don't have to take orders from some jerk like me.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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Every month I make my profit and it goes on rent, bills, car etc.

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I play $10/$20 sng's

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I need to move

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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Ugh...gotta be brutal making a living at the $10s and 20s

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Not if he's young.

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This way poker is more of a supplemental income

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Only to people who don't play full-time [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

OP, work more, add more tables or spend less.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

Ask your parents to pay your rent.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

if you can play 5 tables you can make 10 bucks an hour.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

Get a real job to cover expenses and save. Play fewer games or maybe one game at a time - concentrate on quality of play - concentrate - on improving your play and getting better.

Sounds like you're in a major rut.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

Thanks for all your replies. I've taken them on board and feel I needed a kick up the ass. I'm refreshed and will be single minded in my climb to a more comfortable poker life. Happy New Year.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

[ QUOTE ]
I seem to be a subsistance poker player. Every month I make my profit and it goes on rent, bills, car etc. I don't seem to be getting ahead. I'm not able to move up in money level and so increase my profits.
I was wondering are there other people like me and how they have managed. I can't/don't want to get credit. I play $10/$20 sng's and feel my game is upto moving up but don't want to bust my bankroll as it's my living money.
I was also wondering if money games would be more profitable. I am proud of making a living from poker, but at the moment it's a small one and it's irritating reading articles about other guys making a very (comforatble) living. Cheers.

[/ QUOTE ]

The great thing about playing for a living is that you get out of it what you put into it. If you need more money, play more. If you want a higher ROI, study more. If you need a break, take a break. You don't have to ask your boss for any of this. Just requires some committment.

Post deleted by Cola
 

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

Not another one. I wish people would consider how much 10 tabling $22s can earn before they make posts like this.

Post deleted by Cola
 

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

50k per year working 23hrs a week, 42 weeks a year is really miserable isn't it. I'm not saying it's great, but it's far from miserable.

Post deleted by Cola
 

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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if you can play 5 tables you can make 10 bucks an hour.

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5 tables of $20+2's would be more like $30/hour for a good player.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

That's not the point, you basically said $22s wouldn't provide much of an income. While 50k is worthless to you, I think it's pretty silly for you to suggest it is for everyone else.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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50k per year working 23hrs a week, 42 weeks a year is really miserable isn't it. I'm not saying it's great, but it's far from miserable.

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First of all, he said he played the 10s and 20s...He didnt say how many tables so lets not assume. Lastly, with the expenses some of us have, and the places where we live, 50K before taxes is not close to enough. I dont think its unreasonable to be a bit surprised to hear that someone is making a living straddling the 10s and 20s...but I see your point too. Your numbers reflected more than I expected, to be honest.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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First of all, he said he played the 10s and 20s...He didnt say how many tables so lets not assume.

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No that was just an example. It's probable that OP doesn't 10 table [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I just wanted to point out that it is possible to make a decent income at the $22s. It might not be a great income, but it's definately not as bad as the guy above made it sound. Remember alot of people on this site are college aged where $50 is a pretty good hourly rate.

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Your numbers reflected more than I expected, to be honest.

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A $55er working the same hours with a 12-13% ROI would make 100k.

I've also got to remember this is all tax free for me, so 100k to me is much better than 100k to an american. Hell, my 100k is the equiv to around 180k pretax here.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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First of all, he said he played the 10s and 20s...He didnt say how many tables so lets not assume.

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No that was just an example. It's probable that OP doesn't 10 table [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I just wanted to point out that it is possible to make a decent income at the $22s. It might not be a great income, but it's definately not as bad as the guy above made it sound. Remember alot of people on this site are college aged where $50 is a pretty good hourly rate.

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Your numbers reflected more than I expected, to be honest.

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A $55er working the same hours with a 12-13% ROI would make 100k.

I've also got to remember this is all tax free for me, so 100k to me is much better than 100k to an american. Hell, my 100k is the equiv to around 180k pretax here.

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yes, I agree with all of this. I also have to remember the same principles (not to project MY cost of living on the rest). Taxes are a big issue, especially where I live (NYC) where we have not only the fed taxes, but state and city as well (both of them some of the highest in the country).

But 10 tabling the 22s at a decent ROI should be a decent living for most. I just assumed that this was NOT the case for OP.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

Learn to play MTT's so you can donk your way to a win and auto jump levels.

That is how the pros do it baby.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

You should maybe move up one level at least. If you're doing good enough to keep urself alive at the $11 and $22s, you should be okay doing $22s and $33s. Also 11t is right. You should learn how to play MTTs. $11 MTTs to begin with. It has anywhere between 500 to 1500 players (depending on the time) and first place payout goes from 1000-4000 (plus or minus a few thousand... this is off the top of my head). That's a real booster.

Post deleted by Cola
 

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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You should maybe move up one level at least. If you're doing good enough to keep urself alive at the $11 and $22s, you should be okay doing $22s and $33s. Also 11t is right. You should learn how to play MTTs. $11 MTTs to begin with. It has anywhere between 500 to 1500 players (depending on the time) and first place payout goes from 1000-4000 (plus or minus a few thousand... this is off the top of my head). That's a real booster.

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I'm pretty sure 11t was joking. MTTs have WAY too much variance for someone who is barely making a living. Especially for someone who depends on that money to pay bills every month.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

Yes, a lot depends on where you live. The assumption in this thread is that the person lives in an expensive state/city, or even the US. Here in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, a rather beautiful city to live in (IMHO), U$50,000/year would have you living at a very decent standard.

Albert

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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MTTs have WAY too much variance for someone who is barely making a living.

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I think this is true, but the occasional $11 MTT isn't going to hurt especially if he's busting out a thousand or more $11 or $22 SNGs a month. I'm not saying play them all the time...just a few times a week.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

No, it's more to do with how old you are and what kind of financial responsiblities you have. Most people on this board are young and would live very well on 50k here (for their age), and I live in a city that's more expensive than any american city apart from NYC.

Post deleted by Cola
 

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

Hi, wanted to clear up that I live in the UK. I 6 table and don't use pokertracker or any other software. I'd prefer to grind out a living at online poker than work in the factory that I used to work in. But I have ambition, that's why I read and post on 2+2. Cheers.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

NP.

Moving up on the poker food chain can be done but it's not easy for most. Often what you get out of poker is what you put into it.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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I guess we must live very different lives. I wouldnt get out of bed for $50k a year.

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The second post I read in a week has this s*** in it? Careful throwing stones like that in that glass house of yours.

To the OP: The great thing about a "real" job is absolutely zero variance. You get your check no matter what as long as you still have the job. There are plenty of part-time jobs that should cover your most basic expenses and leave you with enough time to play. I had a writer living in my basement for a while who worked in a chocolate shop part-time to pay the rent and then wrote the rest of the time. If you did the same thing with poker, you'd find yourself faced with the choice of going out tonight or playing poker for bankroll money, not going out tonight or playing poker for rent money. Once you see how much more you can make at the higher levels, it will seem totally worth it to sacrifice a few recreational nights for future implied fun, so your motivation will go up. More fun all around. Point being, get a crappy job to cover rent while you build a bankroll for the higher levels.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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Get a crappy job to cover rent while you build a bankroll for the higher levels.

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Living the dream [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Seriously though, get a job where you can play at work. Best of both worlds.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

Considering you arent paying tax, you should be making a fairly good clip that you can move up. If not then you have essentially 3 options:

1, play more hours/tables/both
2, cut down on overheads
3, borrow to expand (including backing)

This is all basic business theory, you either cut overheads, or grow, be it organically or inorganically. Look at your play from the point of view of being a small company. The choices you make are essentially the same.

And just like businesses, most pro poker players go bust in their first year of opperation.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

I'm pretty sure he's not joking. The utility on a $3k MTT score is worth the risk. Think of utility this way. Say the lottery pays $1000 on a $1 ticket. The probability of winning is 1/2000. Pretty bad bet normally, but let's say some guy's coming to break your legs unless you pay him $1000. You have no other way of getting $1000 other than playing the lottery. Obviously, you want to play because winning lets you not get your legs broken, whereas losing doesn't really change anything and you could care less about the dollar you lost. For the OP, a win means a jump in levels (and a quantifiable increase in money earned) and a loss won't break his bankroll, so even if he's a breakeven MTT player, playing them is a good idea.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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Seriously though, get a job where you can play at work. Best of both worlds.

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That'll do well until your on the bubble at 4 tables and the boss tells you he needs you in the file room to help him find a file. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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I guess we must live very different lives. I wouldnt get out of bed for $50k a year.

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... but you would, however, get out of bed to make insulting comments like this? And to think this is only 5 days after you registered, can't wait for the support, advice and words of wisdom forthcoming.

Re: Getting frustrated with the money I make
 

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future implied fun

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My nomination for awesome new term of the year.


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get a job where you can play at work

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[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I had a job where I a) worked at home full time b) got 27 days of "TOP" time a year c) had badass bennies d) made right at 6-figures and e) did almost nothing but watch Star Trek all day. They were perfectly happy with me as long as I kept the apps I had helped create running. I quit that job, to drive 45 min. each way and sit in an office all day, because I was bored and my career was going nowhere. I wound up with a much much more boring job for slightly more $$, that is doing even less for my career. I want to hang myself every morning when I get up to drive to work.

This was in June, about 2 months before I discovered poker. I probably could have played poker and gotten paid for it for 1-2 years, and taken all the time off I wanted to go to tournaments, etc.

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