A couple of quick badugi questions
 

1) Does it matter if you have 3 different suits or 2, or is the only thing that matters is total baduginess (strangely worded I know). I.e. does A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] beat a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]?

2) How should one play a hand like T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]? Should I be looking to fold or get aggressive quickly and try to win the pot immediately ( I imagine the former in a full game and the latter in a short game ).

3) Any good resources out there?

Re: A couple of quick badugi questions
 

1) Does it matter if you have 3 different suits or 2, or is the only thing that matters is total baduginess (strangely worded I know). I.e. does A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] beat a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]?

My badugi experience is limited to lowstakes play on Doyle's Room, but the number of suits does matter. If no one has a 4-suit badugi, then the best 3-suit badugi wins. In your example the second player's A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (with the nut 3-suit hand) beats the first player who only has A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (the best 2-suit hand). In fact, even a hand like K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] would beat A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. My understanding is that the rules of this game are not standardized, so this might not be true in some games.

2) How should one play a hand like T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]? Should I be looking to fold or get aggressive quickly and try to win the pot immediately ( I imagine the former in a full game and the latter in a short game ).

In the small stake limit and half-pot limit games I've played in, many players never fold until the final draw. This hand would be junk in a game like that and I'd just muck. I'd imagine this hand would have some value in a tighter pot-limit game (i.e. a game where people will fold to a big bet) but strikes me as a hand you want to play fast so that you win the pot without getting to the 2nd and 3rd draws. The longer people stay in, the more you'll hate this hand. You certainly don't want to take your chances showing this hand down.


3) Any good resources out there?

I think this forum is about it. I know of no books or decent websites covering this game. I think the badugi specialists (if there are such people) and the good mixed-games players like it this way. Almost no one knows how to play (I"m certainly in this group) and they can't buy the playbook for $20 or Google it for free. Triple draw used to be this way, but Negreanu wrote the SSII chapter on it.

Re: A couple of quick badugi questions
 

A followup question that I'm not sure of the answer to (haven't seen it come up in my very limited number of hours of badugi).

Suppose player A has A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Player B has A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Both players have a nut 3-suit hand (A23). Split pot or does the "kicker" come into play, giving the pot to Player B?

Re: A couple of quick badugi questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
A followup question that I'm not sure of the answer to (haven't seen it come up in my very limited number of hours of badugi).

Suppose player A has A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Player B has A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Both players have a nut 3-suit hand (A23). Split pot or does the "kicker" come into play, giving the pot to Player B?

[/ QUOTE ]

Split pot. Anything that isn't part of a badugi hand essentially doesn't exist; both players have A23.

Re: A couple of quick badugi questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
1) Does it matter if you have 3 different suits or 2, or is the only thing that matters is total baduginess (strangely worded I know). I.e. does A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] beat a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]?

[/ QUOTE ]

In this instance the second hand would win. In the first hand, the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] cancels the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. So the first player really has an A24 3-card hand. The second player has an A23 3-card hand.
Any four-card hand would beat either.

With any two suited cards, the higher suited card doesn't count. And with any pair, one of the pair cards doesn't count.

Re: A couple of quick badugi questions
 

Hi acesover8s,

I have read some of your pot-limit omaha posts, so I assume you are mostly interested in the half pot limit game, although I could be wrong. I played this game a lot when it came out first on Tribeca, mostly $2-$4, although I haven't played recently.

The answers given to your first question are correct. You generally need to show down a four-card badugi. As far as resources go, I think you're on your own; I wrote some software to manipulate hands but I didn't find it particularly useful and there wasn't enough interest on this forum for me to develop it further. I have met people here who have played the game for years, and you might also find a fair few in the UK, but very little written down.

As for playing a hand like T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] -- in position, or against weak straightforward players you want to play this hand all the time if the pot is unraised, as most players will raise with any pat hand. In first or second position if there are tricky players behind who will semibluff you on the 2nd and 3rd betting rounds, you might be best to fold the hand. Still, headsup you are a slight money favourite to beat any draw, and they will have to put money in on all three drawing rounds. Three handed you are normally not quite a money favourite, but against players who will call you down and never raise you without badugi the hand plays itself. I wouldn't play this against a raise out of position.

I have some more thoughts on the game; these aren't very well developed, or, probably, coherently expressed. I'd like to see more discussion about the game. Maybe I will play over Christmas.